Gents, MLF deserved it period. His title was OC and he was "fully" responsible for production or lack thereof. Its time to move on... I am hoping for either Kubiak of Todd Monken.
He is basically an intern/quality control guy. New OC will bring his own QB coach - Saleh said that position is available and will depend on what the new OC wants to do. There was no point of firing the guy at his level - Saleh basically already said he was demoting him when he said he will replace Knapp's position. Glad he fired Benton though - that OLine was atrocious.
You don't have to fire the entire team, you just have to get your key players back and add some more, along with solid depth. You accept the loss and get It the following year. We wont see that now. So, this new offense better be fucking amazing next year. All I know. I don't care about Zach Wilson at all. If he never played another down, I wouldn't shed a tear. I don't think he Is the answer, I think he's proven what he Is and he has absolutely confirmed every bit of what I was preaching before we drafted him. Hopefully he does figure It out and becomes this amazing superstar QB you envision. At this point though. I just don't care. I'll still accept If I'm wrong, I'll take all the hate and criticism from my fellow posters. I have thick skin, but I don't think I'll need to. I'm pissed off because this team (owner) does the same fucking things over and over that leads to us being the bottom dwellers of the league. We finally start heading In the right direction and of course we need to fire people. It's just dumb to me. I'll leave It at that. I'm not pleased. I'm not happy. I think this season will be a failure because of the domino effect of these moves. As always. We shall see.
On D yeah, but to be fair, we were not starting to head in the right direction on offense. We regressed compared to last year, and during the course of this year to the point where it was painful to watch this offense.
So the guys responsible for developing Zach were two guys who were never a QB Coach in the NFL. Calabrese only had 4 years total coaching experience in the NFL, and while Lafleur had about 8 years, as a first time OC he had his hands full trying to manage the entire offense, and very little time to devote to developing a young QB. But the Jets gave Zach all the support he needed. Whose idea was that?
I've got no hate towards you, and I respect your opinion and right to disagree. Sorry if I came across otherwise.
We were... We didn't get to 6-3, 7-4 on a prayer. We were like 12th-13th In offense before all the injuries. I'm done with debating. I'll see you guys leading up to the draft.
No, we are absolutely good on a person to person level. I'm sorry If I gave you an impression otherwise. I think I'm just not happy, drained from all this with this team. My foresight Is there and I believe things are going to get worse now. It'll be whatever It Is though. Tired of debating and exerting my energy towards this right now. Time I take a break I think. I'll see you soon, CC.
Steve Young's interview on Michael Kay show was pretty revealing. After listening to that the situation became clear. Young said the Jets had a good plan with Knapp in place, who was going to work with Zach and was MILF's right hand. When Knapp passed, it was a massive loss, and the Jets tried to proceed as they were. It didn't work, and they got 2 QB coaches. It helped, but there were too many voices. So, they got rid of both of them and left Zach with MILF. I think Saleh though MILF would be able to handle it, but it backfired. I think Calabrese was not a factor at all in developing Zach. He may be a young talented guy, who is himself just developing as a coach. Even Steve Young was only mentioning MILF. And he said MILF gave him tough love when Zach needed a big brother. They had a broken relationship, didn't see eye to eye. Knapp was definitely a huge loss, but I feel there were several big mistakes made. 1. If we know we pick QB as #2, we should have hired the best offensive minded coach, like Daboll, who just developed a raw QB into MVP level player. In retrospect it was a no brainer. Maybe even not in retrospect. If you do hire a top defensive CEO type coach, you may be OK with less experienced DC, but given HC is not an offensive guy, OC needs to be top notch and with some experience. For offensive coach it may be OK to hire less experienced OC, but not for a defensive one. 2. Given Zach was coming from non P5 school, there should have been a solid veteran QB with a real competition for starting job. Even Flacco could have been a bridge like he was for Lamar. We did get Flacco, but it was a bit late. 3. After Knapp passed, Saleh/MILF should have immediately find a replacement and keep that person. So, I see mistakes made by JD, Saleh, MILF, and yeah Zach deserves big part of the blame too. The question is where do we go from here? Looks like the Jets hopefully are heading into the "OC needs to be top notch and with some experience" route. Let's just hope they get the right guy.
We were 14th and actually maintained around that level until Minny game. Then fell off the cliff, getting worse and worse and more predictable as more film became available, as GW noted. Wrong direction. Let's hope new OC will be a good one. Talk to you soon!
I mostly agree, except for the "Zach deserves big part of the blame too" part. No, not that Zach doesn't have things he has to work on, but where is he to "blame"? He didn't ask to be drafted by the Jets. He was asked to change how he plays his position to fit MLF's scheme even though it didn't come natural to him. AFAIK he didn't demand to start Day 1. The mistakes he made were of trying to learn how to play QB in the NFL, which are mistakes all rookies and young players make, not something to be blamed for. IDK about the not seeing eye to eye with LaFleur, but I'd assign most of the blame for that to MLF. After all, he's the older, more mature person, and he was in charge of getting Zach to grasp his offense. If the disagreement was centered on Zach pushing back on being asked to play in a way not suited to his strengths, maybe MLF should've listened more instead of arguing. But as you noted, JD and Saleh had to be aware of all this, where were they? Why didn't they step in and do something about it? And let's not forget they also allowed the wearing of the "Mike F'n White" tshirts and other nonsense that were divisive. Yeah there was a lot of blame that can be assigned beyond LaFleur, but unless there's some examples of Zach not working hard, or not taking things seriously, I don't think "blame" is the word I'd assign to him.
Well said! "The right guy." I'm all in! As I posted in another thread... judging by the past two years, unless they bring in Pierre LaFleur, I'll be happy whoever they bring in as OC. I can't see the O look any worse than it has been, unless opponents' defenses throw a season-long shutout. .
In regard to your first point about bringing LaFleur along, that was mostly from other articles I read, but it was certainly confirmed by Knapp in the video. Regarding his early take on Wilson, he said what would be expected of a coach just beginning to get involved with a player and was cautious not to make any very declarative statements. He hadn't yet seen Wilson facing a defense live which is why he said he wasn't ready to compare him to any player from his past work. I don't agree that Wilson had a meltdown at the Jets; he never was at a level that was expected. I don't think he's substantially any better or any worse than he was on day one; he showed a few sparks and also showed a few total failures. He never demonstrated that he was able to consistently make the quick reads and take the correct actions at NFL speeds. It's anyone's guess if that is fixable in his case and if Knapp was the guy who could do it. LaFleur, Cavanaugh, Calabrese and Beck all tried without favorable results. Is there a guy out there who can accomplish that task? The fact that Knapp also had a substantial role to play in the development of the OC may allow us to ask why no one was added who took up that task and left LaFleur floundering. In both cases it is clear that Saleh and Douglas dropped the ball on following through on what they had earlier recognized as needs within the organization. They then compounded that by not correcting the situation after the 2021 season.
One could look at the other side of the coin and say if Saleh didn't recognize a change needed to be made and was prepared to make it, he's the one who needed to be replaced. Who made the determination here is strictly conjecture at this point but I ask what you're referring to when you say that the owner has interfered in the past. If it's only about Tebow and Favre it really doesn't matter to me because I saw them as marketing decisions rather than operational football decisions even though Favre had some on-field value before being hurt.
I would suggest that if LaFleur's departure was not due to Saleh or Douglas, the backward steps were taken when Douglas and Saleh were hired, not just now. A head coach or general manager who could not recognize the change was needed now, at the latest, is not suited for their position.
Has this "playoff mandate" come from anywhere other than message boards, Twitter feeds or media commentators? If it didn't issue from the mouth of Woody Johnson, it doesn't exist.
I just read the comments from Woody and Saleh today and there is no mandate. Not sure what some posters are ranting about when it never happened? Woody specifically addressed this. Furthermore Woody's comments and Saleh's seemed very consistent and reasonable. Sounds like a lot of the undue anxiety this offseason so far is coming from fans/message boards/social media and mostly much ado about nothing. Jets brass has been communicating quite clearly via the media since the season ended IMO.
Yeah this is what makes me nervous. I'm fairly agnostic on firing MLF but gun to my head I probably would have retained him and moved Zach on to greener pastures. My assumption is that by doing the opposite the Jets as an organization must legitimately feel Zach can still become a frontline starting QB. I guess we'll see about that. I hate to say it but I almost feel like the Jets are in a worse position now that would have even seemed possible a few short months ago. Your pretty screwed in the NFL with no QB and I'm not sure I see a great, realistic avenue to fix this problem with any kind of serious authority this offseason. Becton is shaky, Breece's injury might be such that he never comes back to 100% of what he was, Corey Davis I was so excited about getting and he's not really clicked, nor has Mims or Elijah Moore which suddenly leaves a shaky group of WRs. The OL as a whole.... obviously somehow remains a unit that doesn't inspire a lot of confidence despite the presence of AVT and all the resources that have been poured into it. And now we're tacking on offensive coaching uncertainty by firing MLF. Its not impossible this might not turn out to be a great thing if the Jets hire the exact right guy but..... yeah... We'll believe that when we see it. To be blunt I feel like we're a mis step or two away from this turning into a damn dumpster fire.
