as in its always easier said than done.... so is there to be a separate ..."whose the new OC in town thread?" How does it get pitched? " Come to the NEW YORK (but actually really new jersey, i share a stadium with my big brother)JETS!! A FARCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!
Well if they hire Bevell at least we know who the interim HC will be next year when Saleh gets fired.
The easy acceptance of the theory that Knapp would have made a sea change in the development of Wilson is something I have never been comfortable with and was trying to find any information about exactly how much time they spent together and how productive it actually was. It's hard to come by actual figures but it appears to have been limited to rookie camp and a few days of OTAs. In looking into that, I came across an early interview with Knapp that has me understanding that the time he spent with Wilson, White and Morgan was spent on understanding the basics of the offensive side of the field and had not even gotten their toes wet on what to expect and how to deal with whatever the defenses would throw at them. Knapp seems like a very astute, likeable guy with a wealth of knowledge but, other than those platitudes expected, especially early on from coaches in general, he says almost nothing about early progress. Conspicuous though is about a three minute segment, beginning about 2:39 that discusses putting a new quarterback into game situations vs. having him learn from the bench. It leads me to believe Knapp may have been in agreement, in principle, with that theory in today's game while at the same time refusing to compare Wilson with any other quarterback he had worked with in the past stating he wanted to see him work in game situations before drawing such comparisons. There's no indication he thought the "get him on the field" mindset was right for everyone but it may have influenced Saleh and LaFleur going forward. Somewhat surprising in retrospect is that early articles regarding Knapp being hired is that a good part of his charge was he would have been expected to bring LaFleur along in his play calling abilities as well as the quarterbacks. There's no telling how good a student either Wilson or LaFleur might have been but the possibility is that losing Knapp might have had more of an impact on the OC than the QB. Passing Game Specialist Greg Knapp Talks Zach Wilson & the Jets QB Room (newyorkjets.com)
Passing Game Specialist Greg Knapp Talks Zach Wilson & the Jets QB Room (newyorkjets.com) That's pretty odd, it's the exact same link but jumped to the JD video for some reason. I changed the original too but if someone clicks on your reply they may get the JD version.
I really agree with Robby Sabo's take: https://jetsxfactor.com/2023/01/11/mike-lafleur-decision-raises-a-critical-new-york-jets-concern/
Yeah, it's basically my take as well.... "If LaFleur is gone due to anybody other than Douglas or Saleh, the New York Jets just took many steps backward—no matter the conviction on “correct or incorrect decision.”
Knapp was a QB genius. Multiple HOF QBs credited Knapp for making them and improving them. How do you not know this?
Bevell was criticized for that pass in the SB, but his team was seconds away from winning the SB. So he must have done something right.
I actually had a different take from what Knapp said. When asked about his role, the first thing he said was being involved with the QBs, & being the voice to the QBs, with Calabrese's assistance. He kind of mentioned the gameplanning, etc, almost as an afterthought. Obviously, because it was June 16, OTAs & the QB thing would be his main focus then. I suspect had he lived, once the season started, he may've been more focused on gameplanning, & in-game stuff, & his answer might've been different. Although Knapp didn't really get much into Zach, in the video, what stood out to me, was his positive statements about Zach's vision (seeing the whole field), that Zach's a quick study, & he doesn't make the same mistakes twice... he learns from his mistakes. And that Zach showed a natural ability to set his feet, & pass accurately, even when his legs weren't positioned the way most QBs need to. So, at a point frozen in time, a well-respected coach saw something that we saw deteriorate over time. We kinda saw the opposite. And that's where I see some of the problem, with what happened after Knapp's death, & what may've led to Zach's meltdown. If Zach had a natural ability to pass accurately, with his own mechanics, maybe they should've let Zach be Zach, & further developed Zach's mechanics within his framework, rather than trying to force him to change his mechanics. That's where limited experience, & rigidity comes into play... we think it's supposed to be this way, so you have to do it this way. That would lead Zach to go into his head, trying to do things their way, & basically what came natural to him was corrupted, & he wasn't comfortable doing it their way... & voila, he's a confused basket case. And I say this from different experiences in my own life. Very simply, I've had people try to 'change' me, to do things the way they do something, or the way they think something should be done. Failure. And I've had people work with who I am, & where I am, and help me do things better. Success. My take is that MLF might still have his job, if Knapp had lived. His gameplans, playcalling, etc, would have been different. And while I have no idea how well Zach would've developed under Knapp, I doubt he'd be the mess he is today. 'Twas a terrible decision Saleh made, not filling Knapp's void. .
Well, they were mediocre 20th in points that year and 22nd in yards in 2017. And this was with Russ, who at that time was one of the best QBs in NFL, a Pro Bowler. Credit for good work with Russ, but this wasn't a great overall OC showing, particularly given the talent. He was then mediocre in Detroit, finishing #17 in yards and #18 in points with Matt Stafford in 2019, and then #20 in points and yards. He then moved to Jacksonville as an OC with rookie Lawrence at QB, widely considered a generational prospect. He finished 27th in yards and 32nd (worst) in points. As I noted before this was worse than MILF did with Zach the same year. Also of note, Lawrence had a bottom three 71.9 passer rating. The following year after Bevell left, Trevor from bottom 3 went to top ten 95.2 passer rating, making a huge jump. Granted he was a rookie when Bevell had him, but still, given such huge jump, and pretty poor performance in year one I am not sure we can state that he helped Trevor's development in any way, and arguably stunned it. Overall, recently, Bevell has been anywhere between mediocre to terrible OC with 3 different teams, in spite of having really good QB talent. Did not seem like he helped a rookie generational QB in Lawrence, who took a giant leap after he left. I think as a QB coach under other offensive minds who are coordinators and HC with offense background I see him as a good fit, like in Miami. But to bring this guy to the Jets as the main offensive mind, at least to me does not sound like a great idea and may be a step back from what we already had.
MLF was not great by any means, but with a healthy team and decent QB play he was fine. To me, the problem was more on the piss poor QB play we got all year outside of a couple good Mike White days, and the piss poor OL play. Yes, the play calling could have been better (I hate empty backfield on 3rd and short) and he got too cute sometimes, but what really worries me is if this is coming from Woody and not Saleh. If Woody is interfereing again then like I said in another thread, we are well and truly fucked
Well, I for one, hope it was Woody's doing. Players aside, its the job of the staff to stock the team with talent and get the most out of the talent. This was only partially done. There was no reason to have the QB roster they did. Injuries aside, there was no reason not to be able to score a TD in 3 games. And so on. The offense was the main culprit for the way the season went,. So no more business as usual. Either get the team over the top or you are all gone. That's a wonderful message to me. Now if Woody interferes in personnel decisions, that's a different issue. He must stay out of the hiring process, must allow the team to get whomever they want, must provide whatever resources are needed, but must say, succeed or else. Why should the football business be different than any other. When you have a business doing poorly, its improve or you are gone.
A few people... myself included... have said...half jokingly maybe... that they should let Zach just use his "natural" skill and just wing the ball. Whether that would have produced anything but interceptions will never be known... but they did manage to mentally & emotionally ruin the kid. Only the Jets...
Take a look at this article by Rivka Brood: https://jetsxfactor.com/2023/01/05/argument-jets-move-on-mike-lafleur/ This was BEFORE GW said people watched our film and knew what we were doing. She was making the same point earlier about MILF being predictable. Yes, the injuries did not help, but also he became more and more predictable as there was more film to study. Even Minny defense, which is bad, he made it look pretty decent. Mike White was making some really high level throws in that game. It does indeed appear that MILF became predictable as there was more film to study on him, and Rivka's article with analytics along with GW's statement at the end basically solidified this as a fact. Whether it is coming from Woody or not, I don't really care. Woody as an owner has a right to tell his HC and GM that offense stinks, and it completely deteriorated at the end. Not that we all don't know that. Also, we can certainly make an argument that Zach sucked, which he did, but he so far looks like one of the worst busts in NFL history. I don't know if outcome would have been better with someone else, but it certainly could not be any worse than how MILF handled it. MILF failed, no debate there, the only question is whether we can get someone who would be better than MILF next year. Until this question is answered with a good OC, I for one am a bit worried given some of the rumors we heard.
no disagreement there…for me, though, I just think has no fucking clue about anything football. His past decisions show that he wouldn’t know a good coach or GM at all. I trust his judgment ZERO.
I agree. We have so much invested in him that it's too early to cut and run. I wasn't a fan of his during most of the draft lead up. I thought he was just a pretty boy and the pre madona some made him out to be. BUT, after getting to spend time with all of his o lineman and get to know them and interview them they re assured me he isn't that guy but he comes across like that at first. Zach needs time to get aquanted with the people and for them to see his true colors. I would love them to bring in a QB whisperer. We all know Saleh is a defensive guy so they need someone on the offensive side who isnt trying to wee wee block the qb because they both go to the same clubs. Go Jets.
