Executive Post Mortem .... 35 years & I've lost my mind

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by rscherwin, Jan 8, 2023.

  1. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

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    RS, I have sent similar "respectful" letters to Woody and FO personnal at different times. JoeW got it right, they do not cared one iota about how we feel or responding to any asute questions.

    Their state of the union meetings usually are full of paltitudes, empty promises (see OL, ZW dev) that JD espouses during his semi-annual team reviews.

    IMHO, if they do not change the schemes and some coaches and adjust the schemes to fit the personnel, then your going to see the same type performance, irrespective of PO mandates.

    Finally, the problem (and it is a problem) I see is that this HC is obstinate in his beliefs regarding the schemes, coaches and players. Unless he is completely honest with himself and realizes that he needs to make changes, set performance metrics/goals then he maybe looking for a new gig this time next year.
     
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  2. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Fields was undoubtedly a better quarterback this year and the idea with him is that he was able to move the ball with his legs while he understands to be a passer.

    We will know whether he has a real shot at being a NFL passer next year, because he hasn’t been a good NFL passer thus far. His redeemable quality is that he can still move the ball while being inept at throwing.

    Of course the offense would’ve been better though. Wilson was the worst QB in the league by a lot. It’s hard to pick a QB out of a lineup that wouldn’t have been better.

    For what it’s worth, Fields also ran all over the Patriots up on national TV.
     
  3. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    But whereas Fields was apparently allowed/encouraged to use his legs, Zach was apparently told not to, to stay on script and learn how to be a pocket QB. Zach is by no means as good a runner as Justin, but he's good enough to make a difference, and when he did run this year he made some key plays, more so than MW or Flacco did. IOW, what I'm saying is if they gave Zach more freedom to ad lib instead of forcing him into their predetermined mold he might well have done dramatically better.
     
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  4. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Where was it reported that Wilson was told not to run for plus yardage?
     
  5. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    It was reported that they wanted him to stay on script and stay in the pocket. Again, I don't know for sure what he was told, nor are any of us. But when you look at the type of player he was at BYU, and even his first 5 games with the Jets, it seems clear they told him to dial back the off platform plays.
     
  6. Jets007

    Jets007 Well-Known Member

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    I think we should get a Vet QB and draft Archie Manning when the time comes.
     
  7. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    This is the part I don't quite get: Zach not being a scheme fit. I re-watched his entire BYU film, and the guy is a pocket passer. Who has ability to occasionally run when needed and make off platform throws. But 90% + of his throws are from the pocket. When asked which scheme he prefers he answered 49ers scheme as his favorite. 49ers really wanted him out of all QBs and were very upset when Jets committed to Zach and his family as Steve Young has mentioned earlier. He is a perfect fit for this scheme.
     
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  8. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    Well, watching him play, Is the evidence. What do you mean? lmao

    He made significant strides this year with an atrocious OL In front of him and far less skill players around him. He has 17 TDs and 11 INTs with 2200 yds with a million rushing yards to go with that.

    He shows he Is far and away more productive, dynamic, and heading In the right direction.

    Meanwhile. Zach Wilson was benched twice and nothing looks optimistic for the kid moving forward.

    Justin Fields would thrive In this scheme. Zero doubt In my mind.

    Zach didn't have any constraints other than his own. He couldn't see the field. He couldn't make good choices. He couldn't set his feet. His fundamentals were God awful. Extremely inaccurate. Pocket presence was dog shit.

    We can just agree to disagree because even statistically I can point to Justin Fields being superior. It's more than just the stats though, the kid Is fucking good and he's only going to get better.

    Constraints. lol

    What constraints, CC?
     
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  9. NJJets

    NJJets Well-Known Member

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    They do it because they can run. They’re built to run. Even as built they are to run they still get injured. Did you see Zach on the first play against SEA? They ran an RPO, Zach kept it, ran smack into the LB and crumpled like paper. Using Zach as a running threat like Lamar/Mahomes/Allen is a ticket to getting him dangerously injured. I don’t care what his measurables say, he’s diminutive in pads. He looks like a child. Not only that, it’s clear he does not like being hit. To be a running threat like that you need a QB that doesn’t fear contact. We did not fail the kid other than drafting him well sooner than he should have been and thus expected him to play at a much higher caliber than he was capable. As MLF said, they failed him by starting him.
     
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  10. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Meh. That means don’t bail out of the pocket when it’s clean and there’s no free rusher. Not “don’t pickup a free 7 yards.”

    Wilson has a real bad habit of bailing out of the pocket as soon as he hit his back foot.
     
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  11. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I agree. He does need to learn how to read the pocket better, no question. And I also agree that he needs to take off running more often than he did. IDK why he didn't do that more frankly since he did do that at BYU. I'm assuming he was told not to do it so that he could better develop his pocket awareness, but I could be wrong. This is definitely an area where Zach and MLF need to get on the same page.
     
  12. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Let me try to clarify. Eventually I believe Zach will be a good scheme fit, but that scheme demands a lot of pre-snap reads and processing, and post snap processing of multiple options. I think it was too much to ask of him - as it would be too much to ask of any young QB. But he needs a lot more hands on help from the CS than he got this year for sure.
     
  13. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Look Dean, I'm not saying that Justin isn't dynamic, but he was allowed to be. The Bears had nothing to lose in turning Fields loose and he thrived. But "watching him play" doesn't prove that he's reading defenses well. I confess I haven't watched much of him at all, but from what I read he's still a one read and run QB. And he's succeeding with that...for now. But in the long run, QBs like that eventually get hurt and lose their effectiveness.

    I get it it. He's an OSU guy and so are you, and you wanted the Jets to take him over Zach. Maybe if they had they would be getting more out of the QB position than they have, but that's only if they did what the Bears did and allowed Justin to freelance. If they insisted that he become a pocket QB and run a multiple read offense I don't think he'd be doing as well.

    It's all moot though. He ain't coming here, and the Jets are committed to keeping Zach (as of now).
     
  14. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    It's not even the OSU thing. It's just, he's damn good. I would've said that regardless of the team he played for In college. I still think TL was better but not by much. I think that will show soon enough.

    I think CJ Stroud will probably get selected higher than Justin Fields and I don't think CJ Stroud Is worth taking In the first round.

    So, I'm not biased when It comes to the Jets. If the two align and It works (OSU to NYJ), then awesome. If It's not a good fit for this team though, I'll be just as vocal about It as I was my criticism of ZW. I thought we were so fucking dumb taking Vernon Gholston for example.. I voiced It plenty In that offseason.

    This Is my opinion, CC.

    I don't think Zach Wilson Is good. From everything I seen In college even, everything I've seen on this team.

    He's bad. Always was, I doubt he will ever be a quality starter In this league. I could be wrong but I doubt It.

    Justin can read a defense, go through progressions, and stand In the pocket. He has things to clean up like every QB In their second year but he's heading In the right direction at least. Again

    17TD
    11INT
    2200yds
    60.5 completion %
    Million Rushing yds

    He's shown he Is heading In the right direction through watching him play and his stats also suggest the same.
    I can't say that In any way about, Zach Wilson.

    ..and there Is zero chance I'm blaming the scheme for his faults.

    I blame them for picking him when they shouldn't have. Not for the lack of skill that Zach Wilson currently possesses though. He Is just bad. IMO
     
    #34 IIMeanDeanII, Jan 9, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2023
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  15. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    The 49ers scheme in Shanahan’s perfect world mirrors more of what you saw when he was in Atlanta (especially before Matt Ryan’s arm turned into a ramen noodle) in 2017. Pass short to setup the run. And then hit big play action passes down the field.

    The 49ers scheme in San Francisco has all been based on YAC as an extension of the run and play action to the tightend behind the linebackers because that’s the quarterback and personnel hand he’s been dealt.

    Fair though - Wilson thought he was going to the 2017 Falcons offense and to an extent he may have been. But there hasn’t been any aspect of the offense that has setup down the field passing.
     
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  16. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    There could be more of that with the Oline that does not immediately get beat like a drum and allows for longer developing plays. Also, Zach hit shorter passes too with great accuracy in BYU from the pocket.
     
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  17. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    I think in Justin's case, there is no one to throw the ball to, but the line is not terrible. Braxton Jones was a great pick, and Reiff/Borom are not great, but significantly outperformed likes of Brown/Fant/Mitchell. Teven Jenkins actually finally got healthy, and played great - top 3 rated by PFF. RG and C are also decent. So, as terrible as the weapons are, Chicago OLine is very decent. Nothing like the Jets OLine. This is not unlike second half of last season for the Jets when LDT was able to solidify the line, and Fant and Moses had good years until injuries at the end. Line is there, but no one to throw to. And to Justin's credit, he made the best of it.

    With Chicago now having #1 overall, I think they will try to trade it to get more assets. But if they went with Young and made Justin available say for a 1st rounder, like #13 and change, I would pull the trigger.
     
  18. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    He really didn’t though in comparison to other college offenses. He averaged almost 15 yards per completion at 247 completions. Bailey Zappe as a comparable figure was around 12.5 at 475 completions. He was completed a ton of 4 yard stops compared to Wilson.

    A big chunk of Wilson’s yardage was from huge chunk plays.
     
  19. rscherwin

    rscherwin Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree on the HC. What kind of full-of-self a$$hole doesn't let CJ Mosely audible because the scheme doesn't call for it. Dogmatism to systems over process is a recipe for failure.

    If respectful letters fail, next up is the airplane over Metlife with the "Sell the team Woody" banner.
     
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  20. rscherwin

    rscherwin Well-Known Member

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    He was repeatedly yelled at (in the media) to "play boring" and "not make mistakes" and "trust the defense." He complied against the Pats and the coach threw him under the bus.
     

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