Spot on! I can't believe anyone who watched Darnold play for us and now Zach thinks Zach isn't better than Sam. Another example of using stats to revise actual reality.
Say what now? If Zach Wilson had games even close to the ones Darnold had against the Packers & Cowboys you'd be fellating him. Darnold had his issues no doubt, probably the biggest being he can't stay on the field, but Wilson has played with much better talent and underperformed him
I feel like Zach's completion % is "artificially" (not really but you probably get what I'm driving at) kept 5-10 basis points off the pace because of his consistent, mystifying, and maddening penchant for just flat blowing 2, 3, or 4 throws EVERY game that any QB on any NFL roster would ordinarily make as a layup. This despite the nominally off the charts arm talent he has. It has been unbelievable the whole way and it just keeps happening including multiple times last week. Just cleaning that up would boost his completion % up into the 60% range without even changing anything else. All last year I figured it was rookie jitters or whatever but as months turn into years and it keeps happening maybe its just part of the package with Zach.
Last year he threw them too low, this year too high. I'd rather have them too low. Well actually I'd rather have them comfortably in stride but yeah
One aspect of NFL QB play is gaining confidence from experience. It's similar to learning how to drive.
No probs pal and you are most correct about the pick 6 being the biggest game changing moment, very frustrating.
you’re not wrong. His Hackenberg like accuracy definitely hurts, but I’d say his biggest contribution to his dismal completion % is his inability to understand and hit the open receiver the play designed him to throw to, instead eschewing that to run around backwards like an idiot, where he’s sporting an astounding 3 for 31 completion rate.
First off, special kudos for the effort you put into it and the amount of valuable data. I also couldn’t agree with you more regarding the bold. I would like to add a couple of points 1- The more you improve the completion percentage, which to me is one of two most important elements, the less throw aways become a factor. 2- Interceptions are momentum killers, and must be absolutely mitigated. That is THE most important factor. One could argue that TD/I is the first or second most critical metric consistent with the one above. I’ll take throw aways over interceptions all day long. 3- In addition to the areas of improvement you addressed, one very important factor is quickly recognizing defensive schemes and acting accordingly. That is not something you learn at the college ranks to this level of complexity. Not even close. Sure as hell not as at Utah, where you can buy time running around sideways or even backwards till you find an open receiver. Forget that crap. That is a very bad habit he got away with in College but killing us now. Fix that and this kid has a chance, a good chance. 4- Better OC balanced game plan diverse enough to keep the D honest. Team play us run first on first/second down continuously, making the pass play on third down even more predictable. 5- Use Zach’s strength, for Pete’s sake, don’t hand cuff him. Every one is freaked out about his preseason non contact injury. Let him run if he sees a window. He can get positive yard in a safe manner when the pocket falls down, and not force him to scramble for time and throw it away because he is making bad decisions under duress at this point.
I'm with you here. Darnold wasn't perfect, but he was definitely better than Zach. Seems like revisionist history. In Darnold's second season he had 19 TDs (4.3%) and 13 INTs (2.9%), with a 62% completion percentage. That is better than Zach across the board for year two. The sample size is still a little small so I'll let Zach finish the year, and legitimately compare then. If Zach was putting up year two Darnold numbers, everyone would have way more faith in him right now. In addition, Darnold also had worse coaching, a worse OL, and worse WRs. Part of me would like to see what Darnold could have done with this team before his year 3 collapse.
Wow! Well said! first off, that just goes to show that even if you adjust ONLY him and no one else, it’s STILL not good enough but honestly I think the basic premise of backing out throwaways is SO off base and ridiculous that I just don’t think it’s even a serious discussion. the WHOLE POINT of taking a completion rate is to sort out ALL of those things…drops, pressures, bad receivers, whatever. If you are so desperate to twist and cherry pick numbers to tell yourself hey look he’s not THAT bad, then I just don’t know what to say. It’s fucking fantasyland and I really don’t understand why he wants to keep dying on that hill. it is just crazy to me that he takes that as a serious discussion. Anyone with eyes who’s watching the games doesn’t even need to check the stats to see that Zach misses too many open guys…the throwaways are just as likely a result of his own bad play and inability to see the field and make the fight reads, or his own gig with running backwards for 20 yards. That’s all on him! I get he faces a lot of pressure, but shit a week earlier Justin Fields showed how to actually run around it. But the underlying argument to me is so flawed and ridiculous that I just can’t take it seriously. It is just a desperate attempt to cherry pick stats to show he’s better than he is. how about this…how about we throw out the throw aways and throw out the drops (which are also impacted by his sometimes shaky ball placement), and hey let’s throw out all those times he’s under pressure too because you know, he really shouldn’t have to deal with that, and maybe throw out the picks that we think really weren’t picks because of whatever, and then let’s see what his completion rate looks like. I bet THAT rate should be fucking amazing! Look, he’s a 90% completion guy!!! unfuckingbeleivable but kudos to you KY for doing the work and pointing out that even if you give him the stupid cherry picking it’s STILL not good
No one was a bigger Sam supporter than me, but I have to disagree here. He lacked the play making ability that Zach has. He lacked the leadership qualities too. His arm is not as strong either. He definitely has terrible luck, including having Bates and Gase, but I don't see what you think is better. People have been trashing Zach all week for the Patriots game, as if they don't remember the "seeing ghosts" game, that was far worse. Yeah, I am very confused with the stuff I read from some posters lately. I truly don't understand how people are so down on Zach. The Packers game when he was a rookie? That was fun. You can relate that to the Titans game for Zach or the Buccaneers game for Zach. The Cowboys game for Sam was amazing in the first half and then invisible in the second half. The opposite of the Steelers game for Zach. There really is not much of an argument for Sam as the better QB. You can throw stats out there, but the QB's were in different situations and asked to do different things. Not to mention Zach still has 9 games left this season. All I meant was Zach has showed better ability than I ever saw from Sam. He still needs to improve a lot, but I like what I have seen so far. Who cares about numbers though? It is about watching the games. How is he definitely better? That is ridiculous to say. It was truly one of the darkest periods in Jets history. And again, I love Sam. Have to be realistic though.
None of this really matters though. At this point Zach looks no more likely to prove to be a near average NFL starter, let alone a true franchise QB, any more than Sam did post ghost game. He has some incredible moments but more wtf ones. The story isn't fully written, but at this point I'm not putting my money on a happy ending.
Sorry, but enough is enough, this is the most nonsensical pile of rumbling trash I have read on this forum in a long while. And that says a lot since you have a few other almost identical cut and paste posts. All it provides is garbage spam value.
Oh really? I didn't watch much of anything of him in college except the highlights so this is very interesting to hear. We've all seen it. He'll just completely clank some throw to a guy 8 yards away that half the fans in the grandstand could make and miss the target by a half a mile, then the very next play will throw some incredible laser beam with pinpoint accuracy that only a handful of the very best NFL quarterbacks could dream about making. I mean... I've watched football my whole life and I literally don't think I've ever seen anything like it. Very interesting to learn this was part of the package in college as well. Reminds me of Steve Sax temporarily becoming incapable of throwing the ball to first base. Figures the Jets would manage to find a guy like that lol!
CC in most case, I agree with your positions but IMHO, Sam's played better his rookie year that ZW has... I stated a couple of times and some others now seem to infer, that this kid maybe "a head case." Some have stated using SABO's premise that the kid is pressing after a bad play. HC has talked about how ZW needs to learn how to give up on a play when its not there... If true and it seems that it is, for me that is a problem. That plus his statement about being bored is cause for concern... If the guy doesn't have the mental fortitude or ability to control his emotions and believes that he can just "wing- it (no pun intended)" like he has, then he isn't fit to lead the team. Look I want to beat the bills but unles ZW has an epiphany and morphs into Pennington, I just don't see how we win. Frankly, I have confidence in ZW because he is skiddish QB that can't process post snap reads and bails even when its good protection.
He doesn’t have to morph into anyone else, and he needs to do his part, fix the glaring issues here discussed, and avoid turn overs. But even with that it might not be good enough to beat the Bills, it will require a lot more than just Zach, Including special teams and D. There is no room for error.
