cval, I come in peace my friend. But looks like certain posts gets under your skin. Calling people Pats fans or trolls or asking them to get a clue aren't a good reflection on you. Can I kindly ask you to dial it down a little?
LMAO!!!! Are you Zach's dad? I mean you're taking this a little to seriously bro. Yeah Zach has had only one bad game huh? and I need to get a clue. Ok
https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/10/25/what-going-on-zach-wilson-ny-jets-film/ Some of these comments, or those who are discounting the obvious and troubling red flags concerning Zach Wilson are hilarious. Allow me to preface that I was – and still am to an extent – a Zach Wilson fan. I very much wanted the Jets to draft Wilson and breathed a sigh of relief when Jacksonville took Lawrence at #1 overall. That said, the video included in this story cannot be refuted – or explained away. Someone said that Wilson couldn’t be expected to find an open receiver during two of those comical scrambles that he had in Denver (and more in other games), however, the tape clearly shows that Wilson had open receivers in both cases, once to Garrett Wilson and on the other to Corey Davis. Instead, he’s looking down the middle of the field seemingly oblivious to the fact that he had receivers unguarded and with plenty of open space to get more yards had he simply thrown the ball in either receiver’s direction during those two plays. Additionally, the tape also shows Wilson not being able to instinctively spot a wide open Ty Conklin in the middle of the field and double clutching and throwing the ball 2 seconds later than he should have – if he had, Conklin gains an extra 10 yards after that reception. Wilson’s football IQ and his overall “feel” for the game was lacking big time in the Denver game and the Jets could have ended up losing had his fumble not been cancelled out. This kid had better get his shit together and soon, otherwise he’ll have nobody else to blame when and if the Jets move on from him and possibly seek a trade for another quarterback heading into training camp next year. Enough with the excuses, his mechanics are all fucked up as evidenced by the tape, his head seems to be on Mars on some plays, he looks as though he doesn’t see the field very well, and as far as his study habits or work ethic is concerned, I’m not in any position to comment on that because I’m not with him at practice or in the film room. What I am certain of, however, is that he played like an amateur on too many plays last Sunday and that kind of play is not sustainable in the NFL. I also didn’t like it when I saw him high-fiving Jets fans leaving the field after the game after such a shitty performance when he should have known that his performance wasn’t representative of championship caliber NFL quarterback play. I don’t know, maybe he doesn’t want it enough, perhaps he’s realizing that the work one must do to play the position at this level is too much for him. I’m also not in any rooms with a guy like Josh Allen, but I know just by watching him, the guy eats, sleeps, and shits football 365 days a year. I can’t say I get that feeling by watching Zach Wilson.
Your entire post was excellent, but the last sentence is spot on. I'm still with team Zach. I've started at least two threads about him proclaiming that in the past But he hasn't lived up to his part and it's a concern. If he could do anything like what Fields did last night, that would be an amazing sign and something to build on going forward. Not an overall team win streak that's clearly being lead by defense and the run game.
Basically, we're all still waiting for Zach Wilson's "signature" game...which has not come close to arriving as of yet. Maybe it never will?
I agree with some of the points you made. And I would like nothing more than to believe that Zack is our guy for the next 10 years. However there are some concerns. First he holds on to the ball too long and after 15 seconds of almost losing 20 yards decides to ditch the ball. Second and more important his percentage of completions is pretty pedestrian. I think in large part the problem is that our offensive coordinator does not know how to adjust a passing game to fit Zach's strengths and avoid his weaknesses. In the end you need to have a great quarterback to go far in the playoffs. Defenses are much more difficult. Plus playoff teams have very strong offenses with QBs that can throw 300 yards without much effort. So relying on the ground and pound is not going to work. Let's just hope that Zack can have a strong game on Sunday and the coaching staff gives him more latitude with his passing game
To me, Zach plays as though he realizes he's made a shit load of money already, and if this NFL thing doesn't work out, he'll always have a cushy executive position waiting for him at JetBlue Airlines.
Here is my take on what Zach has done so far vs realistic expectations in each game: Game 1 - Pitt: Coming back off injury and long lay-off, on the road, struggled for the most part until the 4th quarter. Stepped up huge in the 4th. Recorded 2 TD (1 passing, 1 receiving), 2 TOs (INTs). Overall, considering the lay-off, I would say definitely at least an average performance relative to expectations, Meeting expectations. Game 2 - Miami: Second game back, this time at home, I thought Zach played really well. Mostly a game manager, but there were incredible plays, like rushing touchdown, and a few really key passes. Ended with 1 TD (rushing), no TOs. I think he exceeded expectations. Game 3 - GB: I thought Zach did not have a terrible performance here on the road at GB. He was overall below average, but after film review, there were not too many chances to do much better. There were playing top 2 passing defense. ended with 0 TDs, 0 TOs. Overall, while game was not good, relative to expectations facing top two defense, I say he met expectations. Game 4 - Denver: Zach had 3 big misses in this game, and this was easily the worst game of the year. Offensive line was terrible. Ended with 0 TDs and 0 TOs. Looking at how other QBs performed against Denver though, interestingly his passer rating is average. That includes Herbert. Still we could say a little below expectations. Overall, so far looking at circumstances, such as just coming back after being out for 2 months, level of defenses he faced (including #1 and #2 passing defenses on the road), 3 road games out of 4, realistically Zach has met expectations. He could have done a lot worse turning the ball over and taking some additional sacks from porous offensive line. That could have caused a loss given field position nature of the battle in the last two games. The trend is down, but that could be because he faced easier defenses first, then top 2 passing defenses on the road in last two games. I think the moment of truth is coming though. Next game is against above average (#12), but not top 10 NE passing defense. The game is also at home. I expect a much better performance than in the last two games. It's a good defense still, so he does not need to light it up, but it should be at least a good strong outing. If Zach can do that, he will get right back on track. If he struggles like he did in the last two games, but against a defense that is notably worse than last two teams, there may be cause for concern. So far though, to me Zach is on track to become an average NFL QB this year, given he competition he faced. And that to me was a good goal for him: from worst as a rookie, to average as sophomore, to top 10 in the 3d year.
I agree with it being correctable problems that he has. It seems like he's still rushing his throws even when he has time. Accuracy is effected cause of it so again if he can slow himself down and make the easy throws look easy, even when under pressure. It could save a lot of those issues that is troubling him.
I agree with most of your posts. And in fact, I think your conclusions - as derived from the conclusions in the video referenced - are accurate, and Zach does need to fix all of these things. That said, your post - like so many others criticizing Zach - imply that these problems aren't fixable, that this is his ceiling. How can you assert this after he's played only 17 pro games, and only the last 4 with anything close to decent talent around him? Moreover, not taking into account that the Denver defense is elite and had neutralized all the other QBs they've faced this year, including Herbert who many have held up as an example of where Zach should be as a QB already. Maybe his flaws aren't fixable. Maybe he'll never be more than a "game manager", but here's a couple of things to consider. First, Zach does in fact "eat, breath, and sleep football" as attested to by all of his coaches form HS up the present. Second, he has shown steady, if not spectacular, improvement. Third, what would you have had him do at the end of that game other than openly celebrate a hard fought win that he helped engineer despite his struggles. He didn't sulk or get down on himself, he stayed positive and kept his teammates positive even after losing 3 key pieces of the offense. I think you're being too harsh on a guy who still has a lot of upside.
No doubt, to your own points you could be right - and here's hoping you are. I loved, I mean LOVED this kid coming out of college, but with what I've seen thus far, he doesn't seem to have the "fire" I want in my quarterback, either for the team, or in his own play. He had that moxie and swagger at BYU, I don't know where it's gone. I think the kid needs to toughen up, drop the cute little Peter Pan look he has, shave his fucking head like Marlon Brando did in the movie Apocalypse Now, and show us some of the dog he allegedly has in him. I hope you're right.
I watched the review by Paiva, whom I respect a lot. He does bring up a lot of good points. The double pump didn't need to happen. This is a matter of confidence playing with porous offensive line, on the run all the time against top passing defense in a game of possession, where a mistake is critical, and yes, second guessing himself. Could have done a bit better on this one, however, may I remind you, the result of this play was good 10+ yard 1st down completion? Also, there is no way Conklin is getting 10 more yards if he throws sooner. DB is closing in. Instead of immediate hit, he probably gets a couple of yards more, but not 10. Now, I do want to mention something where I disagree with Paiva, regarding the play on the run, where he looked towards the middle of the field, closer to left, instead of left corner. He was under heavy pressure and pursuit. He did not have any time! All the time he had is to lift his eyes and take a one quick split second look at the field in his line of vision. See someone open, throw, if not run. His head is in a natural position of a runner. Unfortunately open guy was slightly to the left and he didn't see him. This was a broken play, he did not have time to scan the field. This was a good play not to get a huge loss of yards on a sack. There was another play Paiva mentioned (near fumble, where Denver challenged) where Zach avoided first defender, and had a split second to throw the ball before second defender hit him. Instead he tried to avoid second defender and nearly paid. I saw Fields make similar play against NE yesterday and he got fucking hammered after this. Thankfully for him, he was OK, and he got a TD pass, so maybe it was worth the risk given the reward, but in your own territory just to get some modest gain to risk getting hit like this? I don't think so. I think Zach made a smarter play, which didn't exactly work, but can't blame him for it. The problem in these two plays was Oline. Brown had his worst game. Tomlinson played like absolute shit again. Both tackles really sucked to be frank. Herbig, while stepped up admirably, is still a below average starter. I am not saying we need to have to have top 10 OLine (wouldn't that be nice), but with Laken struggling and pretty much all tackles injured, it really doesn't help much.
Why does the media love Zach Wilson so much? I saw Chris Simms whining about Jets fans. The nerve of Jets fans to criticize the NFL's 32nd ranked QB, am I right? but seriously, isn't it weird how much love he gets from the media? What has he done to deserve it
Here is another data point. This guy also thinks Denver game was a mixed bag, not totally terrible and a clear improvement of where Zach was last year against defenses like this, though there is a need for mor eimprovement. One play he reviews was Uzoma miss. Under pressure Zach missed open TE. Looking at the play again, I see Zach throwing off balance, stepping back, while trying to avoid a direct hit. That causes inaccuracy. Had he stood there strong without and make that throw, does he get absolutely hammered? It sure looks like it. Should he have still done it. Probably. But again, on a second look it is not as bad as it looks initially. This is 2nd and 3 near midfield. Standing there and getting hit is one option, where he probably gets a first down. Would a better play be to avoid the hit, while still throwing to the guy, but reducing a chance of completion, knowing there is still 3d and short coming up? I am not sure, maybe. But not an easy decision, especially coming off serious injury.
I'd be interested in seeing those "majority" of critical posts that go beyond pointing out actual deficiencies to the point where anyone has claimed they are not correctable and he cannot get better. As someone who reads just about every Jets football post on this forum I do not believe they are out there other than as an occasional outlier. Instead I believe your claim, and especially the common addendum that anyone not praising Wilson must be a Patriots fan is a bit detached from reality. Will you be claiming they are Bills fans a week from now? You can have your opinion that Wilson has and continues to improve but you can't expect everyone to agree with you. Stats never tell a whole story but neither does a random quarter or two of decent football among 16 quarters of play, but if the guy is that good you should be able to paint a picture using those objective criteria to support your position, I can't find them.
Yeah, I mean the post I was responding to/disagreeing with was one literally saying "Zach has played well all season." That's just blatantly not true. Hardly anyone is saying there's no hope for Zach, just that he clearly hasn't been playing well overall so far. Here I go with what crap lol? Stating reality? Shame on me! The stats that suit my narrative? I gave you like 8 different stats lol, and a few of them are all-encompassing stats like A/NYA, QBR, and QB rating. Feel free to supply any of your own that contradict my points. Something tells me they'll be much more cherry picked than mine if there even are any. Your benchmark for success for a QB taken #2 overall is "not making any critical mistakes." What a low bar lol. Your QB not making critical mistakes doesn't make you lose games but it doesn't mean they're winning the games for you either. We've been winning because of Breece Hall and our defense, not Zach. His escapability has been the key to winning all four games? I just told you he's 24th in the league in sacks taken per dropback despite having a league-average time until initial pressure. You're claiming things that simply aren't true even when shown why they're not true. Running in a line straight backwards 20 yards isn't escapability, it's dumb. Good pocket presence means making small movements to evade rushers and still completing passes. Wilson hasn't done that at all. Believe it or not I'm very much enjoying our win streak, it's been awesome. I'm able to have two thoughts in my head at once though, and I realize that although we've been winning, there is a glaring limiting factor at QB.
One anonymous guy's opinion does not become a "data point" simply because he puts it in a video. The video itself, however does show exactly what happened - we each can silence the opinion and draw our own conclusions or make up a plethora of reasons it's not what it appears to be.
