[QUOTE="Jets79, post: 4223202, member: 23722"]I’m not sure why we get this talk track that fans are rooting for him to fail. lots of back and forth on this topic but in summary, aren’t the basic points as follows: - Zach had a rough rookie year…stats were not good, rating was bottom of the league, etc - there were some reasons for those ratings…bad OL, sun-par receivers, plenty of drops, new coaching staff, etc - the difference is that some fans believe Zach will improve going forward based on a better supporting cast, and he will prove to be the franchise QB we need, while other fans believe that he won’t develop into that because the issues were more than just his surrounding cast there are some who seem totally sure that he’ll be great, others are totally sure he’ll fail, and some are more in the wait and see camp For me, I’d say I fall into that middle group where I have hope that he can improve and think he will, but there’s also enough to give me concerns … I don’t think it’s a sure thing…[/QUOTE] We get it because some here would rather make this unfounded ridiculous claim than to deal with the reality that Wilson needs to improve his game.
How many times do we have to do the "our fans are just haters if they aren't sold on a guy!" routine before we realize nobody hates anybody, they're just pointing out legitimate concerns? Sanchez, Darnold, Becton, Mims, Leonard Williams, Calvin Pryor... Every person who raised early concerns about these players ended up being correct. It really degrades the conversation when it inevitably devolves into this nonsensical finger pointing routine where you can't say anything negative about a player's play without being accused of "rooting for him to fail". We're regulars on a Jets message board! We are all among the biggest Jets fans in existence. We all want the team to succeed. Believe it or not we'd much rather be wrong about these guys and be able to watch NFL-caliber football than win imaginary internet points for being right about them not working out. I feel like this issue goes hand in hand with ridiculous strawman arguments. Nobody is saying Wilson has no chance of improving, or that he doesn't have talent, or that it's impossible for him to ever be the guy. We're just saying the early returns weren't good and you're doing yourself a disservice if you twist yourself into a pretzel trying to find reasons why the early returns weren't bad instead of just accepting it. We do this endless excuses thing with every high draft pick until it finally becomes obvious to even the biggest homers that they suck. The excuses are basically never valid. Turns out that most of the time bad players suck and good players figure out a way to not suck no matter what the circumstances around them are. That's 10X more true for QBs since they can individually impact the game so much.
If you're going to use Josh Allen as a measuring stick you need to take into account the ten thousand throws he made between year two and year three with Jordan Palmer to correct the hitch that caused him to sail passes.
There are plenty on here that say he can't improve and has no talent. Calling things early is the straw argument. More fail than succeed so you have a better chance of being correct. I prefer to wait and see before calling for players head. I root for players to succeed until they prove they can't. I think Sanchez got raw deal and I think Darnold just sucks. I did not think he sucked u til he proved it in year 3 . In Year 1 and 2 I still had hope. I will give Zach the same leeway and not call him a bust before he plays one game in season 2.
I don't care how long you wait, your reading comprehension continues to be too poor to understand simple statements. That's fine, but why be a pain in the ass about it? I never claimed anyone said Wilson doesn't need to improve. Have somebody else explain to you the meaning of what was written here. "Just tellin' it like it is."
Ron Jaworski never learned how to put touch on his passes and he went to the SB. That said, it IS better to be able to use different speeds, but Wilson has shown an ability to do that. I don't know where this narrative is coming from. What he is still learning how to do is adjust to the speed of NFL defenders and to be able to know when to rifle and when to take something off. Right now he's erring on the side of throwing it hard because he realizes defenders are way faster than he was used to in college, but if you watched his college tape and his games last year he showed he could adjust speeds.
Do you know for a fact that he made "10,000 throws"? Or are you just using that rule of thumb that says anyone who does anything 10K times will become great at it?
He shouldn't have to adjust speeds in the early years in the NFL. If he can do it that is fine but expecting him to do it is just insane once he has shown he is having difficulty doing that. The Jets are doing a huge disservice to him by trying to plug him into an offense that is designed for more careful passers with a real sense of touch. They should be playing a much simpler game at this point in his career that draw defenders up closer to the line of scrimmage with a ferocious running attack and then lets Zach take shots downfield - which is one of the few strengths he has that translate well to the NFL. Young QB's that have succeeded with this type of approach include Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Dak Prescott and Deshaun Watson. All of these guys were either protected by not being on the field early or by a crazy early bubble that included being high up the rushing attempts ladder in their early years and getting to take a lot of shots downfield when they did get to pass the ball. The Jets are treating Zach Wilson like he's a better version of Jimmy Garoppolo and whatever he is he's definitely not that. The Jets were 32 out of 32 in rushing attempts last season. What kind of totally fucked up game planning and play calling is that?
There were reports that he was working with Jordan Palmer during that off-season and Allen himself made the 10k comment several times in different ways. His motion was also changed going into his 3rd season and his completion percentage skyrocketed that year from 58.8 in 2019 to 69.2 in 2020. He'd never been over 58.8% in 2 college and 2 NFL seasons to that point.
Agree with that... I'd like to see a more vertical attack... and since we have some talent in the receiver & running back room maybe we'll see some of that.
Among other things it's a lot easier to build an OL from scratch if what you are trying to do is run hard at the other team. The Steelers let Alan Faneca go when they finally decided to let Roethlisberger throw the ball as often as they ran it. Faneca went right to the Jets and a year later the Jets put the same rookie bubble around Sanchez. Not to say the Jets hadn't been able to draft their way into a good OL before that but it's not that hard to find a post-prime road grader with a year or two left in him to plug a hole and his mistakes don't get the QB killed.
Maybe this is the plan with Tomlinson. Make it easy to run it during the length of his contract and have Zach throw it more afterwards if he takes the next step.
Well the RB room has been almost completely transformed and upgraded - drafting Breece was a surprise, but a very pleasant one. They now have the kind of running game that can make things simpler for Zach as you suggest. Not to mention they've tried to upgrade the OL and on paper did so, although I really think they should've taken Icky with that #4 pick and feel even more certain now after Becton has been hurt again. If the OL can gel and be better than last year's version- and based on the players added it should - the running game will be vastly improved and Zach will also benefit by having better pass pro. Him being hurt and missing some time may turn out to be a blessing: with an experienced vet like Flacco running the offense, everyone can learn their roles so that when Zach returns that part is settled. Also, Zach can get the opportunity to watch Flacco run things and learn from him.
Well if he did indeed do that it answers why he was able to make that big leap. Too bad Darnold didn't join him. As for Wilson, I don't think he needs to remake his passing mechanics like that - he's fundamentally sound as attested to by having the 2nd highest Comp % in college (behind Mac Jones by fractions of a percentage). Where he has to improve is maintaining those mechanics under duress at NFL speeds. He's shown signs of improvement there, but still needs to improve more. That said, the fact that he did improve shows that he's aware of this and is working on it.
That is an interesting issue he had his rookie year. He could make some amazing throws that only the best of the best QB's can make, but then he struggled with some basic and easy throws. I think he will get better with them and improve with each rep he gets, which is another reason why his knee injury last week was unfortunate.
