How many times exactly did he do that? EMWTK. In my recollection there were some, particularly earlier in the season, but a few here and there, but they stood out because they were so glaring. But they were not the norm for him. Nor did he show pinpoint precision, however, he was certainly accurate enough for NFL quality receivers to catch his passes. Still, he had a lot of balls dropped on him. I don't know if he led the league in that category but he was up there. Does he need to improve his accuracy? Yes, but the whole "Zach's accuracy sucks" meme needs to be retired.
Again, how does all of this fall on Zach's shoulders alone? You cannot possibly accurately assess his performance with all the other factors taken into account.
It doesn’t, to an extent. I agree with you in the sense that I don’t think Zach’s poor play last year is an indicator that he truly sucks or is already a bust but we also can’t sugar coat how poorly he played last year. Yes, he faced a ton of adversity, perhaps even more than most rookie QB’s but the bottom line is he was not good last season. I’m still as optimistic on Zach as I was when we first drafted him. I think he will be our FQB going forward but the unfortunate thing that goes with that is he will have to shoulder the brunt of criticism when the offense underperforms. Right, wrong, or indifferent, that’s just how it goes for NFL QBs.
I agree the factors had an impact…the OL DID suck at first, our receivers DID drop a lot and then get hurt, etc. still…he sucked. A better QB would not have looked as bad. Mike Freaking White looked better. Flacco looked better. I didn’t count how many bad throws he made in the dirt, but my recollection it was way too many…more than just one or two here and there. I also saw some stats about our WR drop rates, and at one point I had gone and done the math and if you assume the drops were catches, he would still have been under 60% completion. so yeah, he was a rookie, and he had some tough circumstances, but he didn’t play well. I don’t know what else to say on that. Darnold showed more in his rookie season I think than Zach did…at least in terms of numbers. I remember Darnold opener against Detroit…he threw a pick 6 right away but then came back and threw 3 TDs and won the game…not that this is a Zach vs Darnold thread, because I’m glad we moved on there, but just pointing out just how poorly Zach played. I get the excuses, or reasons, but he was pretty terrible last year. he needs to be better…I do think he can be, and I hope he will be…but honestly I’m not as confident in that as many here are. I hope I’m wrong!
When I think of Zach ..I think of his draftmate Trevor Lawrence who also needs to take a step up as well and be an NFL FQB...to me it's really my only consolation that we have a chance to be a great team But anyone who continues to make excuses for Zach Wilson going forward given the Horn of Plenty of talent Douglas just gave him, has to have his head examined Thanks for pointing out that all things being equal Flacco and Mike White were more accurate and handled the offense better I don't know how Joe Douglas salvages his job with Wilson failing ...if he plugged in a good Vet or traded for one that might work The QB is such an important cog in the wheel
By the time he got hurt and White and Flacco came on board the OL was starting to gel and MLF had moved up to the booth, two huge improvements over what Zach dealt with in the beginning. And again, you can't just take a stat like Comp % in a vacuum without accounting for the other factors like the pass rush pressure he was under, the inferior receiving corps he was saddled with for most of his games, and yes, the Drop %. And again, I'm not saying he was great or even good, or had no part in any of that, but it's tiresome to keep hearing that "Zach sucks" when no QB - Mahomes, Rodgers, freaking Manning - would've done much better in their rookie year. He definitely has to step up and prove he's the FQB we all want him to be, and maybe he won't, but now that he's got a year under his belt and much better talent around him, we'll be able to better judge that.
There's a lot of negativity in this thread. Bear in mind that last year they played the Bucs and Bills well late in the season (after Zack came back from his injury and had virtually no healthy receivers). It was important for the players on offense and defense to learn the system. Many of their new additions are veterans and familiar with the system, like their new guard, CB and safety. As for the rookies, I expect Hall to be productive from day one and Johnson to be able to adjust fairly quickly to the NFL game (Gardner may take a whilte to adjust, but he'll still likely be better than either of our starting CBs last year). This team has far more talented players than the team last year - they have a very strong TE room now (which was last in the league last year), they have a much stronger secondary, should have a far better pass rush and a much better Oline. Yes, it will take a little bit of time for it to gel, but it should be much faster than last year and I expect the Jets to be competitive in the vast majority of their games this year. With a strong Oline, solid running game and good TEs, Zack's job should be far easier. If everything goes relatively well and Zack continues to progress, I think they can win 10, maybe even 11 games and make the playoffs.
While I don't quite share your optimism about 10-11 games won, I do agree we have a lot of reason to hope. But speaking for myself, I've been burned so often by what I thought were reasonable expectations that for a variety of reasons weren't met, I'll just temper them for now.
Well, remember that I qualified that 10 game expectation with if everything goes well (i.e., not huge injuries, new players get integrated quickly and young players continue to develop) and Zack continues to progress. I don't know if that will happen, all I'm saying is that if it does happen, I think we can win 10, and maybe even 11 games. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Yup…I’m optimistic as well, and fully expect this team to be quite a bit better than last years team. I think the big factors are Zach’s playa d if Becton can stay on the field if those two play well I think we can be a fun team to watch… if Becton can’t stay on the field and Zach looks like he did last year, not so much
Come on man, he had a lot of balls dropped on him because his throws were poor, they were high, down at the toes or behind the WR's run, you wonder why they kept dropping the ball, at the start of the season they didn't know where the ball was going to be, can you imagine trying to catch not knowing if it was going to be a yard above your head or at your toes? I didn't count them but there was plenty of them. You say it wasn't the norm for him but he finished bottom of nearly every QB category for a reason, when his comp percentage hits 65+ then we can put accuracy issues to bed, he was 55% so it isn't really a meme now is it? Now, I am not hating on him but just countering your own postings and I am hoping he takes a leap this season, you can see he has something in him but you could see that in Darnold as well, he must make the leap in season 2 or huge questions will be asked before season 3.
I almost started a new thread on this but thought it fit fairly well into this thread so here we are... Sounds like Mims has been doing very well in the voluntary stuff so far. Joe Douglas even mentioned him in the "Gang's All Here" Podcast episode this morning, which was a great listen btw. Coz: "Joe, when you draft players there's a lot of excitement about the new players but then there's also questions about what it means for players already on your roster. Denzel Mims, obviously didn't have the year he wanted to last year, now you draft a receiver (at) number 10. To me it looks like he's #5 WR on the depth chart right now. Where does he kind of fit in? What's your belief level like in Denzel right now entering his 3rd season?" JD: "Yeah, I think Denzel has come back with real fire. The last 2 weeks+ here on the field in OTAs, you can tell that Denzel put a ton of work in this offseason. He's in phenomenal shape, he's moving around great, I mean he's running like a deer. Seeing him out there building comradery with his teammates, it's great to see. He's one of the 3 high draft pick investments that we've made here in the last 3 years....To see him come back with he right mindset, with the right mentality, in great shape, ready to compete, it's awesome. So again, like with every other person on our team, keep stacking these days, keep stacking these weeks, and good things are gonna happen." Now, obviously this means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Mims is still going to have to go out and produce on Sunday or all of this will just be kind words from a GM on a player he took in the 2nd round not too long ago. But for those of us who still have hope for Mims, this is encouraging. If he can bounce back and be a productive WR, this WR room goes 5 deep with quality players and that would be a huge boon for Zach, MLF, Saleh, and JD.
Mims had better make the most of what playing time he gets this year. Especially with this new crop of WR's on the roster. If for no other reason than to be attractive for his next team if JD decides on a trade.
Did you watch the video I posted on his dropped passes? Every one of those passes should have been caught. You factor in that they are professional pass catchers and they get to cheat by wearing sticky gloves, there is no excuse. Zach needs to play better and he did down the stretch. This is why I hate looking at Stats without context. Go watch the game breakdowns to get a better understanding of how he played. The reality he was up and down as you would expect from a rookie. We keep talking about how Flacco played great? really, how many games did the Jets win at QB. Mike White had a good game then was exposed against the Bills. Zach's and Flacco's Stats were very similar against Miami.
The best teams have superstars that consistently make quality starting players look foolish. Until we see a couple of our players take a big step up the ladder playoffs seems out of reach. If we can beat guys up in the trenches while our faster players win battles down the field 8-8 seems realistic for now.
Did that video show all the ankle tappers he threw? I don't seem to remember too many of those on the video, any ball not thrown where it should be is all on the QB, if the WR is sprinting from the outside over the middle and the QB puts the ball behind him, you blame the QB not the WR, that goes for the balls thrown up high and low. How about all the throws he missed from 5-10 yards? So according to you, there is no excuse for a WR to drop a ball but excuses are plentiful for not being able to throw a ball in the correct place. He did have some awful drops by the WR's as well, I am not saying he didn't but the 'excuse' could be made that they didn't know where the damned ball was going to end up, high, low behind or occasionally on target. I don't even hate the guy, far from it but the excuses that people make get on my tit end, he played very poorly for most of the season, again the reason he is one of the worst rated QB's, I suspect this is the reason you don't like stats. Who is talking about Flacco playing great btw? I can't think of one solitary person on this site that actually likes Flacco, as for Mike White, he played one great game which at the time was one great game more than Wilson had played, he started well the next game and got injured and then was exposed against the Bills and never played again, now some might say that was harsh as the Bills were a quality team and he was still bothered by his hand if I remember correctly but in reality Mike White will make a good back up and not a #1 QB I have said over and over I am willing Wilson to succeed but he really only has this season to show a lot of improvement or we will be into Darnold territory and then where do we go in season 3?
See bolded responses above He was a rookie there is no way on this planet he does not improve unless he comes down with Mono. He has a few advantages over Darnold is that he is playing in the system with same coaches (Do not underestimate this in the development of a QB). How much he improves is really the question. Zachs issues are not accuracy issues (His footwork got a bit sloppy but he corrected this in the middle of the season last year) but the speed of the game. Zach can put the ball where he wants it but making the correct reads fast enough and getting the ball out on time. This is where we need to see the most improvement from Zach. (IMHO)
And the constant refrain that "Zach sucks" based upon stats out of context get on my last nerve. As Cval suggested, go and watch the video he posted of all the drops by Zach's receivers before you say they were uncatchable and on Zach. These are NFL pros, paid to catch the ball as long as it's close, meaning if they can get their hands on it. Moreover, part of their job is to get separation to make their job and the QBs job easier, something else they failed to do consistently. And no, these do not excuse Zach from his part in it all, and I've said that every time I've commented about this, but saying "Zach sucks", "Zach isn't accurate" is definitive and leaves no room for context, and is wrong. Since you're a soccer (football) fan, how would you judge a player, say a Center Mid, who puts the ball in the vicinity of his teammates with the accuracy that Zach has shown? Would you say he sucks? That his passes not being handled properly are all on him? Just wondering.
It's definitely good to hear, but can also be JD hyping up a guy he wants to have some value for in a trade. Until we actually see him show otherwise, even in practices, I am assuming he stinks.
