Is Braxton worth his asking price...

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by BudJet, Feb 7, 2022.

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  1. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    the question isn't a matter of how easy he could be replaced though. it's if he's worth what he's asking for.
     
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  2. NYJFOREVER

    NYJFOREVER Well-Known Member

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    The argument some Jets fans are making is that it is easy to find someone that can do Berrios' job.

    It's fine to question what his worth it and I don't think he's worth his reported asking price, but saying he's easily replaceable to support that is asinine.
     
    #82 NYJFOREVER, Feb 9, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2022
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  3. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    My gut says they will let him test the market, and make him a similar offer if it’s within the 6M/ year range max.
     
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  4. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    I see what you are saying but hell the guy was an all-pro returner because he was one of only 3 guys in the league to return one for a touchdown. There are so few touchdowns because 80% of them go out the back of the end zone

    Half of the leagues returners see less than 20 opportunities to bring it out over the course of the entire season. You don't pay a guy $9 mill for 20 plays, that's stupid.
    --

    If they are going to extend and bring back Berrios it has to be because they want to use him more as a pass catcher. Because as a returner he is absolutely replaceable. Maybe his replacement returns it for 5 whole less yards on average (~30yards - ~25yards), which would be a significant downgrade, if that's only 20 times than its virtually meaningless, especially since he can just take a knee and get that same average
     
  5. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    which i get and I made that argument myself but at the end of the day you don't overpay someone regardless how easy or hard it is to replace them. you pay them based on what they can bring to the team. 9mil would be the top slot WR in the NFL or a low end WR2. berrios isn't near that level. best KRs only get a few million
     
  6. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    You pay him the value and the market price if you want to keep him. It is only overpaying if nobody else is willing to pay it.
     
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  7. NYJFOREVER

    NYJFOREVER Well-Known Member

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    I personally wouldn't give him 9M a year and I do agree that that number is ridiculously high for what Berrios brings to the table. Berrios knows his number is ridiculous; always ask for more than what you want.

    I would give him 6 to 7 million a year, with most of the guarantees up front so the Jets can move on from him in 2 years. If the Jets don't re-sign him their WR group is a mess. Davis, Moore, and Mims (Before FA or draft)
     
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  8. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    People still saying he isn't this or isn't that.

    How does anybody know?

    The more they give him the more he keeps producing.

    I say make him the slot WR and keep him on return duties as well as all the trick plays he is in on.

    I wouldn't give him 9m to start but I would offer 6/7 and then tell him if he hits certain agreed marks then he can get 9m next season and beyond.

    The Jets haven't got to the bottom of this guy's talent yet, that is a fact.
     
  9. NYJFOREVER

    NYJFOREVER Well-Known Member

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    The AAV doesn't matter -- It's all about the GTD money.
     
  10. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    I just don't know how you offer these deals out with GTD money, maybe you can guarantee it if he hits 800 yards and 8-10 TDS?

    I don't know?
     
  11. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    yes and no. market value is what it is. it's what teams are willing to pay a guy. it's still an overpay if they don't contribute enough to justify it. look at trumaine johnson we gave him market value but it was still an overpay. same with bell.

    Exactly. they can give him the semblance of like 8 mil a year but less in reality. something like 4 years 32 mil but the 1st 2 years are 3 mil a year and a 6 mil signing bonus. he would make 9 mil in 2022 and 3 mil in 2023. years 3 and 4 could be 10 mil each but not guaranteed and he could be cut in 2024 with a dead cap of 3mil. His 2022 cap would be 4.5 mil as would his 2023 cap. then he would be 3 mil in 2024 as a cut player in dead money. I think it's a fair deal for both. he if can prove in the next 2 years he's worth 10 mil a season we can keep him at 10 mil for the next year as well.

    as far as the group goes, currently were missing a WR3, and WR4. I think we can find that easily. we can sign a cheaper guy to be the WR4 and draft a WR high who depending on who we draft can start outside with moore in the slot then we can also draft a late guy to compete for the WR4 spot
     
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  12. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    You know the talent on your favorite team Is extremely bad when fans on a message board start getting hostile over the thought of losing their all-pro RETURN guy, who has overachieved In a very specific role on our offense.

    The reality is, If he's resigned. That's great. If he's not, it's not a big deal overall. We NEED elite talent on both sides of the ball. Berrios Is far from elite and shouldn't be paid as such.

    For those that are saying ..

    It's just 2 million more.

    That shit adds up quick and when you are strapped for cash vs talent. It matters.

    Overspending will get you In trouble too.

    Moderation Is key obviously.

    Point is.

    Either outcome won't make or break this team.

    So, getting riled up over it is silly to me.
     
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  13. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    Point is

    No team has 53 elite talents in their squad.

    Got to keep reliable foot soldiers if that is all you think he is 'All-Pro return guy'

    Well he is a bit more than that isn't he, he is and has been an underused WR all the time he has been here and when given the opportunity to make plays has constantly done so, the normal fan would think, why not give him the chance to make more plays and see if he has got something that 'we' have previously failed to appreciate.

    The guy literally has never let the team down.

    Though not sure who has been getting riled up by it?

    Just looked like normal off season discussion so far.
     
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  14. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    It's a good thing to send a message to the team that if you improve enough to make first team All Pro that you'll get paid.
     
  15. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    all pro returners are lucky to get 4mil a season if that. paying him 6 mil is very fair.
    we paid JFM who we got off waivers and improved but we didn't give him 20 mil like top pass rushers get. we gave him a fair value for what he does.
    berrios should get a fair value, I don't want to lowball him but he can't get "best slot WR in the NFL" money when he isn't
     
  16. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    serious question…not trying to troll…what are the salaries for the top slot guys and who are they? And then do we know what slot receivers may be available in free agency this year?

    I’m curious what our options are…

    Berrios will ask for as much as he can…but we haven’t actually heard him say he wants $9m to sign, have we?
     
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  17. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    You pay someone based on how much they're worth. ANd part of that evaluation includes how easy/hard it is to replace them.
     
  18. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    cole beasley was widely regarded as the best when he signed his deal in 2019. he got 4 years 29 mil. thats 7.25mil avg. the 1st 2 years were a total of 16.6 mil including signing bonus and roster bonus's (a total of 8.3 mil per year) with 14.4 mil guarenteed

    Juju got a 1 year 8 mil deal and is a FA

    crowder with us got 3 years 28.5 mil on a mac special but since we were short on WRs i get it. when he was relgated to be the 3rd WR only JD cut his pay down to 4 mil this year. hes' also a FA and a better WR3 then berrios

    mind you these are top slot/WR3 guys. not WR4 guys or low end WR3s. berrios wants more then them.

    zach pascal who is an average WR3 got a 1 year 3.3 mil contract. adam humphries got 1 year 2 mil. both are FAs this offseason.

    we could replace berrios in the slot with a very at half the cost he wants.

    At the current time it seems like we are planning to draft an outside WR in the 1st which puts them opposite davis and moore in the slot who only makes 2.2 mil on a rookie deal. do you want to pay his backup 9mil? It just doesn't make sense to me.

    depending on the draft and FA though we very well could be

    1) Davis 12.5 mil
    2) burks or london (5 mil a year on rookie deal)
    3) moore (2.2 mil a year rookie deal)
    4) humphries or zach pascal or even crowder or cole back (4 mil a year)
    5) late rookie like calvin austin III (700k a year rookie contract)
    6) mims (2 mil a year rookie contract)
    7) jeff smith (800k ERFA)

    looking at that top 7 which to me looks pretty good i'm not sure how you can justify paying a guy who on this list would be 4 at best more then 3-6 are getting combined. remember the only reason berrios got as much action as he did was becuase we were down our top 4 WRs. he was 5th on our depth chart to start the season. he proved he belongs in the NFL and is a great special teamer and a solid backup slot WR but no way has he proven enough to deserve the money a top slot gut would get.


    it includes production. for example a long snapper is a very specialized position. hennesey is one of the best and he'd be hard to replace. but i'm not paying him 9mil to snap the ball 4 plays a game.
    Kick returns are nearly irrelevant these days with the new rules. they have less value then before.
    also the top KR this year in avg and TDs was kene nwagnu and he was a 4th round rookie. were overrating him as a KR. he's good but not heads and shoulders above the next 10 or so guys
     
  19. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Seriously? He's far more than just a kick returner, and played far more than 4 plays a game. That's just silly.
     
  20. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    i was making a point. but in 8 out of the 16 games he played, he had 20 or less snaps. he couldn't pass davis, moore, crowder, or cole on the depth chart. he started the season as a WR5. he only got to ply because of a widespread injury bug in the WR room. you want to pay him double over players he couldn't beat out? in the games where cole played and berrios did and berrios had less then 20 snaps here is cole snap counts 36, 31, 26, 55, 38, 13, 43. we paid cole 1 year 4 mil. i'm willing to give berrios 6 mil becuase his added value as a KR/PR but WR4s get 2-4 mil a year. low end WR3s get around 4 mil a year. that is what berrios is. 6 mil is fair. he isn't near good enough to be a top WR3 in the NFl which typically nets around 7-8 mil for that. WR1s are 16-20 mil. WR2s are 12-14mil, WR3 is 4-8 mil WR 4 is 1-4 mil. you have to look at where berrios is and he's a high end 4, low end 3 at best. thats around 4 mil. you can add a couple for his return value. that puts him at 6 which is very fair. I'd be highly suprised if any NFL team offered him anywhere close to 9 mil.
     
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