As usual Max, an excellent synopsis. But I'm afraid you're just using too much reason and logic for some people who have closed their minds to that. EDIT: Let me also say that if I didn't see Zach improving in some areas despite the other problems, I'd be much more concerned, but I see a guy who knows his shortcomings and is working on them and making some progress. Unlike Darnold who simply regressed and never seemed to be improving.
These two points cannot be emphasized enough... And I've said it a few times in various Zach threads... he needs to calm down and let the game come to him. Maybe he should try hypnosis... along with a beta-blocker...
Unlike the college weekends against Southern Indiana and Troy State, I think the NFL "game" IS coming to Zach--and way too fast. He looks really nervous and abandons the pocket almost immediately. This is WAY different than the creampuff college schedule and Douglas should have consider that (but didn't). The Cardinals moved on from highly touted QB Rosen the very next year after they drafted him. The jet will waste 2-3 years trying to convince themselves that Zach is not the second coming of Geno, Bryce Petty, Nagel, Troy Taylor, etc. It doesn't matter who they draft in other areas next year, a team has to have a QB who is a leader. I still think White has looked better this year in fewer chances.
Yeah... I wasn't referring to the pass rush... lol I'd like to see some stats on whether Zach works better out of shotgun vs. dropback.
i agree it’s a very good synopsis and the rationale is valid. But to me, it’s not the entire picture. What really bothers me is that yes I get all that…but he is missing receivers that are WIDE OPEN. And he’s missing them while NOT under pressure. There are WAY too many throws in the dirt or five feet over the receivers head where the receiver is literally all alone. Last week alone the TE wide open in the short flat…same with the RB open in the flat. Yet he misses them by a mile. that’s what’s really giving me serious concerns…I’m not seeing all this progress … or at least not enough of it. He’s still making these horrible throws like he’s been doing for weeks. And against the Saints, it wasn’t because he had no one to throw to all the time. As bad as our group was last week…mostly 3rd tier bench guys for sure…they were still open several times and he missed them way too often. those are foundational type mistakes, as my boss would say. You can’t keep throwing at open receivers feet time after time after time. At some point, you gotta shit or get off the pot. I don’t think it’s too much to ask of a rookie QB. Hit the easy throws to open receivers that are there to be made. once he starts doing that, then he will start looking like he belongs and create hope. Until then, he’s a guy that we’ll continue to have to make excuses for and look for all these little improvements and progress until we realize that he just isn’t the guy. I don’t care how strong your arm is…you can’t throw EVERY ball at 100mph when the receiver is 5 to 10 yards away…and for fucks sake, throw the ball to where the receiver is running, not to where he was a second ago. These are basic QB things that a QB needs to do well. And he’s failing miserably at it. I can deal with things like learning the offense, or adjusting to NFL defenses and reading wrong coverages, or learning that the pocket doesn’t last for 5 minutes like it did for them in college. That all I get. But he’s actually doing pretty well with most of that. Still panics a bit in the pocket, but he’s getting better there, he’s making pretty good decisions on where to go with the ball, etc. it’s the basic QB stuff that he’s struggling with, and I’m sorry but there’s just no excuse for it. No QB makes every throw…even Mahomes put a couple in the dirt last night…but Zach just misses SO MANY of them. In today’s NFL, you can’t be below 60% accuracy…you just can’t. The defenses are too tough…you have to at least make the easy throws that are there to be made. He’s struggling with that. If he can fix that, I think he’ll be ok. But I haven’t seen it yet, and it’s not because the receivers suck. Yes that means he gets less chances to open receivers, but he had plenty of easy layup throws against the Saints even with our shitty receivers yet he missed too many of those. he just needs to settle down and make the plays that he’s capable of making. But we need to see it.
In college Zach rarely had to throw the ball under any pressure. BYU's run game was very strong and designed to bring defenders up to seal the edge. Then Zach threw sideline routes and posts to his heart's content because the gameplan had already opened up those options for him. Why the Jets thought he would prosper in a pass-first offense is a mystery. We're watching the sour fruit of their miscalculation in this regard play out on the field in front of us.
He's the clone of Browning Nagle. Same size, same build, no touch. Nagle QB'd the jets all of 1992 throwing 100 mph slant routes thru the receivers hands. End of year Nagle had 7 TDs and 17 INT--Wilson is moving toward those numbers. I still say the jets should not waste 2-3 years trying to prove Wilson was not a bad pick (which they will). The Cardinals moved on from QB Rosen 1 year after drafting him very high. GOOD teams admit their errors and move on. Bad teams like the jets spend 2-3 years trying to prove they didn't make an error. Then they move on.
It is not a "pass-first offense." they get down by so many points early that they can't run a "run-first offense"
Yeah, dump him that makes sense. Rookie of the week last week this week dump him. Not even sure what to say. The reality is he should have sat this year to prevent idioc posts like this. In the long wrong playing will benefit him if Johnson the GM can ignore this crap.
To clearify the one hopper to Berrios, it was not about mechanics or being innacurate he one bounced for the same reason Mahomes did Thursday. He tried to get the ball oit quick did not find the laces and the ball slipped out of his hand. It happens as proven on Thursday.
I don’t think you can realistically dump him but he needs to make a massive jump in year 2 or you have to dump him. Otherwise we’re Daniel Jonesing this situation and just trying to prove we weren’t wrong. I also want to see the Jets take a mid round quarterback that’s played a lot of football (Zappe from WKU or a couple others) so that the Jets can at least fake a QB competition in camp and get different looks. Regardless of who the QB is I always believe in drafting mid round QBs and trying to luck your way into Matt Schaub for a second trades down the line. I think the hook for quarterbacks is two years now. It used to be 3-5 depending on the decade you’re talking about.
Same here…I’m not saying dump him now and move on…I think we do need to give him another year. BUT…I fully expect to see serious progress in year 2. And not this bullshit progress like hey did you see that one throw against Tennessee shit. He will need to put together games where he looks like a legit NFL starting QB. Say over 250 yards, no picks, a couple of TD’s, and over 60% completion rate. That’s what he needs to show. no more of this shit show of 52% completion, multiple picks, 185 yards, etc. I’m tired of hearing all the excuses about receivers dropping balls and OL sucking and all of that. Yes that’s been true, but not nearly as bad lately as it was earlier in the year and he still looks the same. Especially since half the drops are his fault with badly placed balls. I don’t want to waste 4 years…if he doesn’t show real progress next year, I’d move on instead of wasting more time.
Well I'm not sure what "massive" means, but yes, he does need to show that he can become the FQB we've been looking for. Now I know from your posts since I've been here that you're reasonable - even if we don't always agree - but there are many posters here (and fans elsewhere ) who are expecting perfection, or close to it. Zach is going to make mistakes, just like EVERY QB does, even the great ones. But for anyone who has an open mind and not a fixed agenda, they can see that he has made progress, even if it's been in fits and starts. Overall he's better than he was to start the season. I think that bodes well for him continuing to grow next year, especially as conditions and personnel around him improve.
He hasn't thrown multiple picks since week 3 and he averages over 185 yards per game. But don't let the facts slow you down!
He needs to be around 2-1 touchdown to interception ratio and in the 62-64% completion percentage range while showing the ability to keep us competitive in games. Eye test also matters and it can’t be all garbage time stats like Blake Bortles did that year in Jacksonville. Trubisky achieved what I outlined in my first sentence in year 2 en route to posting a 95 passer rating. With the introduction of receiver screens, jet sweeps that count as passes, the modern day blend of NFL offenses with the Air Raid and a defensive PI or holding every 6th play, those numbers are pretty much a bare minimum. Especially in year two of the same system with a supporting cast that should realistically improve. I’m done with the patience for young QBs angle. I honestly wouldn’t even hate it if we took Corral because I think he’s a high floor prospect but I won’t push that.
