Report: "Zach Wilson was fundamentally falling apart"

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by ouchy, Nov 22, 2021.

  1. MoWilkBeast

    MoWilkBeast Well-Known Member

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    Mike White did though and Jones is fairly similar with a bit more talent. It's not inconceivable at all that he would look good in this offense.
     
  2. Centiment

    Centiment Well-Known Member

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    14/24 145 yds and there were at least 2 sideways completions for no gain in there, fans gonna love it up next week trust me lol.
     
  3. MDJets

    MDJets Well-Known Member

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    I hope the kids knee is ok. Good to see him tough it out to come back in. But I admit it scared me.

    it will be interesting to see how he holds up this week in practice.
     
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  4. stinkyB

    stinkyB 2009 Best Avatar Award Winner

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  5. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    There was a play, a guy was 6-8 yards right in front of him, no pressure, and Wilson still managed to chuck it over his head

    he is broken and needs to sit the bench for awhile
     
  6. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Mike White has 75 rating in his 4th year out of College, while 4 years older than Zach. If that's where Zach is at in 3 years, it's a different conversation, but so far he is only a bit more than a half a season out of BYU.

    On Mac though, I actually do agree, he looks legit. That does not mean Zach with more time won't be good also.
     
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  7. WoodyHarrelson

    WoodyHarrelson Well-Known Member

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    I know Zac is just back but that is a god awful Houston team. Zac looked really bad. Maybe Corey Davis being back can help but we will need to invest heavily to surround him with weapons. As much as we need D, we need to model this O afte Dallas IMO and make him liek Dak. Problem is we need a Zeke, OL and 2 stud WR
     
  8. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Zach wasn't as terrible as you guys make him sound. Yes - nothing special at all, but he did get some key completions to win the game. INT was a fluke. Overall, yes a subpair performance, but I don't think "really bad" accurately sums up Zach's performance yesterday.
     
  9. NYJFOREVER

    NYJFOREVER Well-Known Member

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    Terrible first half.

    2nd half was much better but he still looks like he has the yips. Still looks he's processing things at a million miles an hour, the game is just too fast for him right now.
     
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  10. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Had a rushing TD too, which was critical. A missed FG too. First half was bad, but the game consists of two halves, and "terrible" doesn't accurately describe his overall performance. He wasn't good, he made mistakes, but the game was focused on a run, and he managed the game, made some key plays, and wasn't terrible overall in this game either.
     
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  11. KY Jets Fan

    KY Jets Fan Moderator
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    He's a rookie making his 7th start, coming off of 4 weeks of rehab.

    It's perfectly understandable to expect more from him and still be optimistic about his future.
     
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  12. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    So the issue here is that LaFleur and the Jets offensive staff seem to be running a system that prizes a QB with good field vision and a willingness to take what the defense is offering on any given down.

    Maybe the Jets thought that was the easy stuff when they drafted Wilson and were trying to add his downfield striking ability to the system. A noble pursuit since downfield striking ability is always good and on top of a normal passing game can be very strong.

    However Wilson *can't* make the easy passes that LaFleur's offense must have to run well. That means that all the downfield striking ability in the world is going to go to waste in the system the Jets are trying to run.

    If they want to salvage Wilson they are probably going to have to ditch LaFleur's offense for something that is dramatically more run-oriented and much more vertical in the passing game off of those runs. There are many offensive systems, mostly dated to an earlier era in the NFL, that matchup better with Wilson's skill set - although it is not clear that he will run them against NFL defenders any better than he runs LaFleur's system.

    The Erhardt-Perkins is probably the best match for Wilson's current skill set. It does not require strong recognition of the entire field state on every play, just a good look at one side of the field post snap. It does not feature slow-developing plays at multiple levels of the field. It does emphasize the run, particularly between the tackles, which slows the pass rush some as the down linemen all have important assignments in run defense on every down.

    It's the offense the Jets ran during Parcells time here and it is the offense the Patriots ran before Brady went supernova and that they are running now with Mac Jones.

    At some point the Jets are going to have to choose whether or not they are going to ditch Wilson or ditch the offense that he cannot run. The sooner the better.
     
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  13. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    This is an argument that doesn't have a lot of legs. The reason is that mostly when QB's suck right off the bat it is because they suck.

    All of the "he's a rookie" arguments ignore the fact that he is also objectively bad.

    He can be a rookie and he can be bad and we're just screwed. Giving him more time because he's a rookie doesn't do anything but waste time if he is also bad.

    This, BTW, is not a Zach Wilson phenomena. The majority of rookie QB's are also bad and need to be replaced fairly quickly. It's part of the NFL experience.

    If I told you that Zach Wilson was a lot like Ryan Leaf as a rookie you'd immediately come back with "he's not that bad" or "Leaf was a head case" or "the Chargers didn't know what they were doing when they picked Leaf on the #2 pick and they had no clue as to how to develop him."

    In fact Wilson is very similar to Leaf in both skillset and performance. He's not a head case. The Jets didn't know what we were doing when we picked Wilson #2. The Jets have no clue as to how to develop him.

    That's 3 out of 4 and the odds are enormous that Wilson's NFL fate will look a lot like Ryan Leafs.
     
  14. IDFjet

    IDFjet Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid you may be right--in your favor is the "psychologist role" John Beck is apparently taking according to yesterday's game reporters. I think that whole angle is pathetic frankly and I hope its just bad journalism rather than true.
     
  15. WoodyHarrelson

    WoodyHarrelson Well-Known Member

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    The INt wasn’t a problem for me. He just is not accurate. That’s whT I see.
     
  16. KY Jets Fan

    KY Jets Fan Moderator
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    This is true, but I don't understand how anyone can definitely say someone sucks after playing 7 games in the NFL. Especially someone coming off of 4 weeks of sitting on the sideline. How's Russ looked the last 2 weeks since he came back from his injury? It takes time to get back up to game speed, even for seasoned vets.

    Did you miss the part where I said it's understandable to expect more from Zach? Clearly he's not playing well, I'm not disputing that. I'm just disputing the fact that we have to bail on the kid or declare him a bust when he's 7 games into his career. By this logic, the Bills should've bailed on Allen after his rookie year. Same with the Lions when Stafford threw 20 picks in 10 games his rookie season.

    You're right in assuming that because Zach has struggled, his chances of becoming a top tier QB are lower than if he was immediately producing but those chances aren't 0. Whether or not Zach becomes the next Ryan Leaf or Josh Allen will depend on how dedicated he is to improving his game and how dedicated the Jets are to nurturing his development.

    Just to make myself clear, Zach has overall played bad so far this season, a few flashes but mainly bad. With all that being said, I'm just not ready to say there's a 0% chance he'll develop into a good QB.
     
  17. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the INT was a TOTAL fluke. He took off, and Ty looked at him, and Zach immediately threw him the ball. Unfortunately Ty was already turning away to block. It wasn't the same type of missed reads or inaccurate tight window throws to covered players INTs he was throwing many of in weeks before. If not for this complete fluke, this would have been his first game without INT.

    Also agreed, he missed wide open Moore and threw a pass too hard to him another time. This was not a great game by any means. But he also should have had a passing TD when he threw high degree of difficulty pass to Wesco on the run, and Wesco made a good jump to get into position to make a grab, but then fumbled it like a dufus. To an NFL TE, this is a catch 9 out of 10 times and a throw not everyone can make. Moore slipped up on another play that could have gone for a TD. The point is that he was rusty, he is a rookie, it was not a great game, but the game wasn't as bad as some people say. Particularly coming off pretty serious knee injury.

    Exactly, and this goes 10 fold for a rookie. It's a good thing he was able to practice, but he did miss several weeks of throwing completely and only practiced last two weeks, one week with first team. Clearly his knee is not even 100% yet.
     
    #177 Borat, Nov 29, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  18. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    IMO, right now we have to wonder if he's regressing? Missing 4 weeks isn't an excuse for making the type of mistakes he was making. His accuracy and reaction in the pocket both look worse than before the injury. To score 21 points we needed several key penalties, an INT return to scoring position from a D linemen, and a great 4th down catch by Cole on a bad pass. This is against a bad defense that benched one of their few decent players for discipline reasons before the game.

    Maybe it was just rust but its hard to believe it right now.
     
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  19. Linebacker712

    Linebacker712 Well-Known Member

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    This isn't necessarily the case. Payton Manning was pretty terrible his first year. Steve Young was a total bust with Tampa Bay. Drew Brees was looking like a bust with the Chargers until 2004. A lot of the other greats who sat on the bench the first year, who knows how good they would have been if thrown right in their first year?

    I'm just saying I'm not ready to just throw in the towel and declare Wilson a bust yet. Needless to say, I've not once been impressed yet by any of his performances, including the Titans game. I am more skeptical of him than I was even of Darnold. Both Darnold, and Sanchez before him, showed many flashes of potential in their rookie years and while Wilson may have potential, I have not yet seen it. He either doesn't have what it takes, or he doesn't have it YET. It's too early to tell. But yes, he does have to show something, because he hasn't shown one iota of improvement from week 1.
     
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  20. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Mods should sticky this thread to refer people to when they say "We just can't have nice things". Why should we when we piss all over the presents? SMH.
     

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