2025-> 2030? By that time this CS should know what works and what doesn't. Until then? Embrace the suck..
Practically every day you write that I don't know what I'm talking about and then follow it up with a silly fanboy post. Yeah, not really. Were so full of talent that were 4-21 over the last two seasons, and very few of those loses were competitive. Were arguably the worst team in the league two years running. I can write a fairly long post detailing JDs pros and cons. Its the cons you make excuses for. Saying if we traded the 2nd pick we'd have more talent on the team this year is true. We'd also have considerably more talent on this team going into next year. Only an amateur GM, or the 00s Browns, would have used the second pick on a QB with so many glaring holes in the roster. The bolded is the asinine statement in our discussion.
@ouchy if trading back was so obviously the right move then let’s hear an actual plan that involves that.
I wouldn’t say JD doesn’t know how to build a team…I think his approach has been thought out… for offense: build OL. He had the second pick and a shot to reset the clock on a QB and he took it. It’s not like he traded up or gave up multiple picks to get there. He took the shot. I wasn’t as sold on Wilson as maybe others due to the level of competition at BYU and the limited COVID schedule…I think he has a bust potential. But still, I understand the decision and I’m ok with it. Had he traded up to get Wilson I’d have had a serious issue with it. But we didn’t. And then, after he got the QB, he went OL in round one again (much like the Cowboys built their OL). And then he went and got his new QB some weapons in Moore and Carter. I think he’s shown he DOES have a plan. There’s a strategy at work here. We can debate the merits of his actual picks (I.e., Wilson vs Jones vs Fields or Becton vs Wirfs) but the plan makes total sense to me. Build an OL. Reset the clock on QB. Get playmakers. Rational. Consistent. Makes sense. for defense: again, build the DL. He got Lawson and Rankins. We used all of our top draft capital on offense, which I think we were ALL clamoring for before the draft. That was the right call. And so he had no choice but to use late draft picks on D. We can only do so much in one draft. He used free agency to make up for it, but injuries took out Lawson and the other safety we signed…can’t recall his name right now (Joyner?). Again, we can debate the merit of the players signed (I.e. Lawson was up and coming but a bit of an injury history), but the plan is clear. Build the DL. so to me, saying he doesn’t have a plan or doesn’t know how to build the team is not true. He clearly has a plan. He invests top resources in key positions…not stupid uses like safety or DT. I think like any GM, he’s made great player choices and some not so great ones…the 2020 draft is looking pretty poor to me…Becton has been hurt, Mims can’t see the field, Davis is fast but not much else, Perine can’t see the field, etc. but this draft looks better, and it’s valid to ask the question of how much the HC input was…JD has himself stated that he likes to work closely with the coaches to get players they want, so it’s possible that Gase had some amount of influence on the kind of players we drafted in 2020. We’ll see. But even the great drafting teams (I’m looking at the Steelers and Ravens as good examples of consistently strong drafting teams)…even they don’t hit on everything. so I don’t agree that “he doesn’t have a plan” or that “he doesn’t know how to build a team”. He has a strategy and a vision. He’s been explicit and clear about that. He has made some bad draft picks and some very good ones. He’s made good trades. He hasn’t spent foolishly in free agency. He’s accumulated draft capital. He’s executing his plan. while I agree that the decision to take Wilson or trade down and accumulate more draft picks and take another QB like Fields or Jones is a valid debate, I don’t think that means he doesn’t have a plan or he doesn’t know how to build a team. it’s ONE decision in the process. A big one, yes. You may disagree with it. Personally, I would have been ok with trading down as well, but I can also see the thought process in staying put and taking a guy with a high ceiling. I’m not gonna kill him for the choice.
You really want to go back to that stuff? I made a post about this as soon as the draft ended. The word was the Eagles were offering their 2nd (37), 3rd (73), and their 1st and 2nd in 2022 to swap down to 6. That's two 1sts, two 2nds, and a pretty high 3rd to move down four spots. We could have gotten a blue chip player at 6, a solid guard at 37, and LB at 73 to go with AVT and Moore. Plus an additional 1st and 2nd this year. But if your flexible, as rebuilding teams should be: We could have done what the Eagles ended up doing at 6, and trade with Miami down to 12 for an additional 1st and 3rd in 2022. Pick 12 was Micah Parsons, who is making a great case for DROY. Or we could have just taken AVT there without giving up anything. (adding picks 37, 66, 73, and 86 to our last draft, plus two 1sts, a 2nd and 3rd in 2022 - just for going from 2-12.) In this case, in addition to our pick, we'd have Seattle's 1st, Philidelphia's 1st and 2nd, and Miami's first and 3rd in the upcoming draft. OR We could have did what the Eagles did and gave back Miami's 3rd to move to 10 and gotten Devonta Smith, or Mac Jones, or Justin Fields. This would solve the QB issue leaving so much capital that even if Jones/Fields busted we'd be set up to replace him. Or if we took Smith we wouldn't need Moore and could have used pick 33 to fill a hole elsewhere. OR We could have talked to the Bears and traded down to 20 for an additional 1st and 4th in 2022. (Now we've gained an additional three 1sts, two 2nds, two 3rds, & 4th. In this scenario we'd have 5 1sts, 3, 2nds, and 2 3rds in the upcoming draft in addition to several more high picks last draft, all for trading down to 20). This is how you rebuild a core. This is just going by what actually happened. It could have gone a lot of ways. The options were open all over the board if we were flexible. That was the most valuable draft we've ever seen and we stayed put and took a QB when we had roster holes everywhere and teams dying to throw away their gold. We should have a much better roster than we do, and a much brighter future than we have.
JD additions in 2020 & 2021: Note: of the players drafted by Idzik and Mac, notice how few are still on the roster or even in the NFL. With all drafts, I am only listing players who made significant contributions to the team. 2020 Draft: Limiting it to players who have already contributed to the team in a significant fashion - Becton, Davis, Hall, Mann, Mims, Huff FA: George Fant, Conor McGovern, Neville Hewitt, Patrick Onwuasor (Didn't play due to injury) Trade: April 24, 2020: Traded 2020 3rd round pick (101st overall, Dalton Keene) to Patriots for 2020 4th round pick (125th overall, James Morgan), 2020 4th round pick (129th overall, Cameron Clark) and 2021 6th round pick (186th overall, Hamsah Nasirildeen) April 24, 2020: Traded 2020 2nd round pick (48th overall, Darrell Taylor) to Seahawks for 2020 2nd round pick (59th overall, Denzel Mims) and 2020 3rd round pick (101st overall subsequently traded, Dalton Keene) July 25, 2020: Traded Jamal Adams and a 2022 4th round pick to Seahawks for Bradley McDougald, 2021 1st round pick (23rd overall subsequently traded, Christian Darrisaw), 2021 3rd round pick (86th overall subsequently traded, Wyatt Davis) and a 2022 1st round pick October 19, 2020: Traded Steve McLendon and a 2023 7th round pick to Buccaneers for a 2022 6th round pick October 21, 2020: Traded Jordan Willis and 2021 7th round pick (230th overall subsequently traded, Jimmy Morrissey) to 49ers for a 2022 6th round pick November 2, 2020: Traded Avery Williamson and a 2022 7th round pick to Steelers for a 2022 5th round pick October 28, 2019: Traded Leonard Williams to Giants for 2020 3rd round pick (68th overall, Ashtyn Davis) and 2021 5th round pick (154th overall, Michael Carter) (4th or 5th-round pick) 2021 Draft: Wilson, AVT, Moore, Carter, MC II, Nasirildeen, Sherwood, Echols, Dunn, Kenny Yeboah, Jonathan Marshall FA: Carl Lawson (hasn't played due to injury), Corey Davis, Keelan Cole, Vinny Curry (hasn't played due to injury), Sheldon Rankins, Tevin Coleman, Lamarcus Joyner (hasn't played due to injury), Justin Hardee, Tyler Kroft, Thomas Morstead, Morgan Moses, Ronald Blair (has played little due to injury), Quincy Williams, Tim Ward Trade: Dan Brown for Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, traded for Joe Flacco, Traded for Shaq Lawson, 4/6/2021 Sam Darnold for 2nd and 4th round picks in 2022, Traded up for AVT, Traded Chris Herndon to the Vikings for a 2022 4th round pick Re-Signed: JFM, Marcus Maye Mac (2015-2019) 2019 Draft: Quinnen Williams, Chuma Edoga, Trevon Wesco, Blake Cashman FA: CJ Mosely, Jamison Crowder, Brian Poole, Daniel Brown 2018 Draft: Sam Darnold, Nathan Shepherd, Chris Herndon, Folorunso Fatukasi FA: Andre Roberts, Avery Williams, Teddy Bridgewater, Trumaine Johnson, Isaiah Crowell, Spencer Long, Morris Claiborne, Terrelle Pryor, Josh McCown 2017 Draft: Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, Elijah McGuire FA: Josh McCown, Kelvin Beachum, Morris Claiborne 2016 Draft: Darron Lee, Jordan Jenkins, Justin Burris, Brandon Shell, Lac Edwards, FA: Steve McLendon, Matt Forte 2015 Draft: Leonard Williams, Lorenzo Mauldin FA: Darrelle Reavis, Antonio Cromartie, Buster Skrine, Marcus Gilchrist, James Carpenter, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brandon Marshall 2014 Draft: Calvin Pryor, Dexter McDougle, Dakota Dozier, Quincy Enunwa FA: Chris Johnson, Eric Decker, Breno Giacomini 2013 Draft: Sheldon Richardson, Geno Smith, Brian Winters, Oday Aboushi FA: Chris Ivory, Kellen Winslow, Jr., Willie Colon, Dawan Landry
1. Where have you seen that the Eagles were giving two 1sts two 2nds and a 3rd? 2. The Dolphins wouldn’t have traded a 1st round pick to to Jets under any circumstances so you can take that right out of the equation. You could have traded back to 6 with the Eagles because I know they were interested in moving up for Wilson, but I haven’t seen that package detailed anywhere, or you could have accepted the 49ers package and go back to 12. If your argument is that the team wasn’t ready to draft a QB, then you can’t say they trade back and take Mac Jones. You are either in the QB market or not, you don’t trade back and not take the one you believe in the most. Literally no one does that, ever. Not ever. So you’re still starting Sam Darnold behind essentially this same exact team as they have with the addition of 1 other high pick since most of the picks would be future picks. You spend the season losing, this exact same way, with fans and the media absolutely destroying you for not moving on from Sam when you had the chance. Then you’re sitting here in the 2022 draft with extra picks without any good QB prospects. I understand it if you don’t believe in a any of the QB’s in the draft. I understand if you like one but it’s the wrong time to trade up and get one. But if you’re in position already and you believe in one, you strike because you never know who or what is available in the future. 2013, 2014, 2015 was a 3 year stretch with top prospects including EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Blake Bortles, Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota.
JD got us all of these picks and cap space, I think it’s only fair that we let him try to bring his vision/plan for this team to fruition.
Lets just stick to your example of only trading with Phily. 1. Nobody said to keep Darnold. We could have signed several vets, or done what we've done for the last 4 games at QB. Don't give me this, "it would have had to be Darnold" stuff. I'd have traded Darnold in a heartbeat for what we got for him and that trade is to JD's credit. 2. We'd have the same team except one except one extra pick? Why pretend we wouldn't have had picks 6, 37, and 73 last draft? Lets just use who the Eagles got with their first two picks as an example. We'd have a star #1 WR and a road grater guard whose quickly becoming a star. I think we badly need both of those and its silly to pretend that alone wouldn't have been worth it to us. Now add our choice of a half dozen quality LBs that went in round 3 - where we gave away our picks. But to you its the same team with one pick and we'll just pretend having extra 1sts and 2nds in 2022 wouldn't matter. 3. Teams that plan their rebuild around QB prospects get nowhere. Example - us. You build a talented core and accumulate draft capital and then worry about QB. Or take one that falls into your lap at a reasonable position - like Jones did for NE, or Fields for NYG. I get your POV and heard it a ton last offseason. But its an incorrect POV and I've seen nothing to prove otherwise. Folks can keep pretending that JD is taking us on a great path to rebuild our team. But the truth is he has already driven off the road and tanking 2 consecutive seasons wont do much to get us back on track. Were on the long road to 8-9 in 2023 before our next rebuild.
So if not Darnold then who is playing QB for this team in 2021? And who are you targeting in the 2022 draft? Also, you didn’t answer where you saw this trade package from the Eagles reported.
Dude, at this point I'm not that interested in rehashing draft stuff or discussing next draft. But that was the offer that was rumored, and most people here said it wasn't enough to swap down to 6. Does it seem like it was too much now?
Again, Not really for debating but just for a gauge/temp check . There are 50 other threads to talk trades, draft... blah blah. iow, Simple question, simple vote, simple answer...going into a 500x character explanation is not necessary here.
RT Looks like board members are split in half. Same goes for Twitter crowd. Some pro Joe D and some against him. Tie breaker goes to our resident darksider boss @Cman65 Agreed?
