While he was my first choice there were many other veterans we could have chosen. The idea that we did not need a veteran QB on the roster is insane.
Can someone explain to me why this board is complaining about a guy who's playing lights out, in a position of desperate need, who was an investment in the protection of our rookie quarterback?
I'll try to lay out the take concisely: The average performance of an OL taken 23rd or 14th is usually about the same. The overall talent level of available players isn't much different at those two picks. We have a pressing need for 1-2 additional OL. With the 2 third round picks we gave up for AVT, there's a high likelihood one of them would've been better than GVR had we spent both 3rd round picks on OL. With that in mind, had we kept the picks we'd have likely taken someone just about as good as AVT at 24 AND probably gotten someone better than GVR in the third round. The result of that would've been the OL as a whole being superior to how it is now (remember GVR alone is responsible for a ton of the problems with our OL). By keeping the picks there's also the off chance that all three OL's drafted would've been good, in which case our entire line would be set for years to come. Keeping the picks would've been a higher ceiling move and was likely to have been higher floor as well. Again, not saying AVT's been bad. He's been good, but the data on expected value of picks in various rounds says that we'd usually have done better keeping the picks.
as said at the time, what did you expect him to say? Hi, It's great to be in NY and have my first gig as a GM, don't worry about that googled-eyed cunt he will soon be gone. Cya next week.
I don't think a good GM candidate would have taken this job. Remember how we got stuck with Idzik because nobody wanted to be forced to be with Rex? Gase was way less desirable than Rex, and yet we're supposed to believe an actual top GM candidate wanted the Jets job?
Well not an experienced one certainly, of course, the suggestion of friendship between Gase and JD was out there from the beginning but how true that is I'm not sure, also on the subject of him sacking Gase, that was never in his powers as he and Gase had equal footing and reported to the Talc Twins independently. So if JD realised and I'm sure he would have done very quickly that Gase was way out of his depth he could not sack him, of course, he could have recommended him to be fired in his private meetings with Chris Johnson, JD has done some good and some poor things as a GM, let's be honest, who has never made mistakes early in a new career? His first draft was poor but how much input does the HC have in asking for certain types of players? For me, a good GM would be liaising with their HC to formulate a plan for draft night, no point in drafting a player if the HC doesn't want him, or you sort of end up with a Mims scenario (I know he was drafted for one HC and he is with a 2nd now). It would seem to me that he has done this with Saleh due to the late picks all being hard-tackling multi-positional players. I don't really blame him for no vet QB, as there wasn't much of a choice to begin with tbh but the moment Morgan quit the Jets we were always playing with fire and maybe that was the time to have acquired one in retrospect. I am worried about Becton and Wilson, the former for injuries and the latter just looks like he isn't ready and maybe should have been sitting learning for this season, they, of course, should have spotted this in camp and then went and acquired a vet presence, so that must be bad judgement by one or both of them. Then there are the RG issues, the signing of Feeney who seems to be so shite that he can't even displace Van Roten and that must be a huge level of shite not to be even considered a valid replacement.
@Dax89 @REVISion @ouchy Generally true, but this year the data says otherwise. AVT is far and away better according to PFF than next 3 Gs we would have taken. I heard rumblings about Teven Jenkins before Jets traded up, who went early second. If we got him, it would be a disaster as he is out for the year. Dickerson and Carman, also went around that time, are GVR level. Then if we save the 3d and pick GVR replacement, we get Mayfield or Newman, who are even worse than GVR. Ouchy mentioned Leatherwod, who first of all is not a guard, second went before our original pick, and 3d he is rated as the worst tackle in NFL right now. The point is, no matter how you slice it, while generally what you are saying is true, THIS year ALL guards taken in 1st/2nd and 3d/4th are not doing great, EXCEPT AVT. Some are doing terrible or out for the whole year. Making this trade avoided a disaster THIS YEAR.
We're in a tough spot with JD because he's actually been fairly competent on the personnel side in my opinion. He stockpiles draft picks, doesn't spend big in FA (to a fault), prioritizes offense and gets great value out of trades. There's a lot to like on the personnel side of things. His 2020 draft wasn't great but we've gotten about 9 starters total from the last two drafts, that's pretty damn good. Our CB's went from terrible to pretty good and our offense has a lot more weapons and overall talent than before. With that being said, you are often defined more by your mistakes than your big wins. Saleh and co. seem to have been a big mistake on the coaching side. It's looking like a mistake so big that JD might not recover from it despite the relative success on the personnel side. I can see an argument for retaining JD and firing Saleh if the season continues like this but it would be really hard to stomach JD hiring another coaching staff if he has indeed botched this first one so badly.
Being frugal in free agency is a minus if it means getting your QB killed and leaving your defense gassed because you can't move the chains.
Leatherwood can play tackle or guard and is currently starting at guard for the Raiders, and he is developing a rep as a wicked run blocker. The reason he went before our original pick is because we traded up to get AVT. The rumor was that the Raiders wanted AVT and that's why we jumped in front of them, and they took Leatherwood. The truth is, it was never confirmed the Raiders wanted AVT, and we might have been able to get him at 23. We for sure could have gotten one of these two at 23, or Christian Darrisaw, who will likely become a stand out tackle. Dickerson went in the second round, and its true he had a slow start, but he has been solid the last few games. He is basically on the same trajectory as AVT. There are other guards that were rated pretty good that haven't gotten to start yet, like Wyatt Davis, who was taken with our Seattle 3rd rounder at 86. He'll likely turn out as good or better than GVR. You put too much faith in PFF's made up rating system. It doesn't tell the whole story. The point is we could have gotten 2, or even 3 guards for the AVT trade. Or better yet, three impact players at any position of need - like CB, LB, TE, etc. One player is not going to rebuild a team and when you spend 3 top picks on one player it shows on the depth chart. Either way as long as AVT works out we cant complain too hard. But we cant call an overpay trade up genius either. It is what it is, and we are what we are.
The jury is out on his first two drafts, but I feel a lot better about the 2021 class than I did about the 2020 class after 6 games. I believe next offseason will the last before the heat gets turned on his seat. Three full offseasons and two with the HC he hired is enough time to tell if he's building a contender or just spinning the wheels like his predecessors.
Name me any OL you wanted him to go and spend big money on? I will then tell you that that player would have zero intention of joining this franchise at this current time.
Neither do you really. The implication is three top picks, normally people would not be calling third round selections top picks. If you just stated it as it is a 1st and 2 thirds instead of the added sensationalism, it would stand your argument in a better stead and I am sure we got a 4th back as well which you have neglected to mention. People mention Darrisaw but he is a left tackle, we didn't need a left tackle (even though it looks like we did really in the end) Dickerson was a major injury concern. Davis was absolutely creamed by a couple of people as a poor guard, @legler82 was one and @IIMeanDeanII the other I believe. So I can't see how these live up to your scenario for us to get 3 as top players over just AVT.
The implication is not three top picks. The implication is one pick slightly worse than AVT and at least one pick better than GVR. If you take two guards in the third round there's a pretty good chance at least one of them would be better than the dumpster fire GVR. There's also the off chance both third rounders turned out to be good in which case we wouldn't have to worry about our entire OL for years.
The problem is, the ones who are worth spending big money on are usually extended by their current teams.
and want to win a ring, they do not want to join a project in its infancy, you may tempt an older player for a last hurrah but they come with their own concerns, namely injuries. It is hard and really not something you can sling at a GM in our position but that is just my opinion.
You have misunderstood. The implication is we gave up three top picks. We did not, we gave up a first (a top pick) and two thirds (not top picks)
I am still a fan of Joe D. Call me a sucker. His 2021 picks are solid. If we hire a coach who can use Becton and Mims, his 2020 draft will also look good. He gets great value out of trades. He doesn't spend like a drunk sailor for short term gain. But I think Sales will be his demise. Saleh will take the fall due to LeFleur and Joe D will take the fall due to Saleh.
