Spot on. Does anyone really think Sam would do ANY better here now in Zach's stead? I don't recall Sam's receivers being worse than Zach's and dropping so many balls even when he was here. And he was still the worst QB in the League. Pressure non stop. Believe it or not, but OL was better for Sam. Play calling just as bad. Sam would be pulling Ghost games right now, just like he has done every time he was pressured, and he would be pressured all the time. Out OL, WR, OC are not helping a rookie QB right now.
I'm not as far along as you, but I thought (like you) JoeD would keep Sam after looking at the options in the draft. After Trevor Lawrence, I didn't think he'd go with a rookie QB. I just had so many doubts about Zach, even after Simms dumped holy water all over him. If JD was going to go rookie, I would hope for a taller pocket guy with a good track record of doing good against pressure. Oh well....so new we have to hope ZW turns into the next Joe Namath (you know...Sam Darnold plus 3 1st round draft picks good).
Spot on. Zach has made mistakes, no doubt. But Comparing Sam after three years and three games with a far better team this year versus Zach three games as a rookie with a massively underperforming and less capable cast is literally laughable in my view. This team needs to lift the play across the board way up. Starting with the OL, WRs, running game and play calling.
Taller pocket guy is right. I know there is Drew Brees and Russell Wilson, but Zach Wilson just looks short out there to me. Move the rebuild back ANOTHER three years, when Douglas/ the jets finally admit that Chris Simms was wrong. Like Jim Mora Mora said "Playoffs? Playoffs? I just want to win a game!"
Darnold would either have sucked this year, in which case it would have been a total waste and another lost year, or played okay this year in which case we would have had to pay up huge to sign him next year, which is a non-starter. Either way, he had to go.
Literally laughable? Oh, okay. Glad you got a good laugh. When Sam and Carolina make the playoffs and the jets finish about 2-15 maybe that will tell us something. And, we missed out on getting three round picks by drafting Zach. Sounds like right now you would STILL rather have Zach Wilson than Sam and the three first round picks (which is what Miami got). Yeah, you probably would. Now I'm literally laughing too.
And yet Carolina signed him to a pretty reasonable deal for both sides. The question really is would Darnold plus extra draft picks and the new coaching staff have come close to enabling the level of performance he's getting in Carolina and whether the short term gain if they did was better than the long term potential in resting the clock with a new QB? It's a multi-million dollar question and the answer depends on what you think Zach's potential is and how likely he is to get there. If you think he's got a chance to be a top 5 QB it's a no-brainer. If you aren't so sure then it's much harder to answer.
This is getting old quick, Sam, Carolina, three first round picks (it was two future and a swap this year but anyway), all your posts are just repeating the same diatribe. Just admit that your whole reason for starting the thread was your desire to have other posters tell you your great and praise your foresight. You wanted your head patted and your belly tickled and now 11 pages in, it hasn't happened yet so you are continuing with your, look at me look at me posts which to be honest are getting very boring. Hopefully soon someone will tell you everything you want to hear until then best of luck with your Sam, Carolina, 3 first picks posts
And yet the truth is the truth. The Jets are what they are right now because nobody in the building has understood how to build a team since Parcells left town. That's 20 years of failure at building sustainable success and we keep making the same mistakes over and over again.
I was right there with ya. Thought the contract was a little too much at the time but was willing to overlook it because we needed help at CB so bad. I shudder looking back at that thing now. Way too much guaranteed money.
I'm tired of this narrative that Zach is a small QB by NFL standards. So here we go: (Spoiler Alert: This is a long post, skip to the end for a wrap up) For the sake of consistency, I gathered all heights and weights from ESPN. Josh Allen: 6’5” 237 Tua Tagovailoa: 6’1” 217 Mac Jones: 6’3” 217 Zach Wilson: 6’2” 214 Lamar Jackson: 6’2” 212 Joe Burrow: 6’4” 221 Baker Mayfield: 6’1” 215 Ben Roethisberger: 6’5” 240 Tyrod Taylor: 6’1” 217 Carson Wentz: 6’5” 237 Trevor Lawrence: 6’6” 213 Ryan Tannehill: 6’4” 217 Teddy Bridgewater: 6’2” 215 Patrick Mahomes: 6’3” 230 Derek Carr: 6’3” 210 Justin Herbert: 6’6” 237 Dak Prescott: 6’2” 238 Daniel Jones: 6’5” 221 Jalen Hurts: 6’1” 223 Ryan Fitzpatrick: 6’2” 221 Andy Dalton: 6’2” 220 Jared Goff: 6’4” 217 Aaron Rodgers: 6’2” 225 Kirk Cousins: 6’3” 205 Matt Ryan: 6’4” 217 Sam Darnold: 6’3” 225 Jameis Winston: 6’4” 231 Tom Brady: 6’4” 225 Kyler Murray: 5’10” 207 Matt Stafford: 6’3” 220 Jimmy Garoppolo: 6’2” 225 Russell Wilson: 5’11” 215 TLDR; The average weight of starting NFL QB's is 221.16 lbs and the average starting height is 74.84 inches (aka 6'2" 5/6). So by NFL standards, Zach is 6.16 lbs lighter than average and 5/6 of an inch shorter than league average. Can we please stop with this narrative that he's tiny? He's slightly below league average in terms of both height and weight. If you're saying Zach is small, you must also think that Tua, Mac Jones, Lamar, Baker, Tyrod, Trevor Lawrence, Tannehill, Teddy, Derek Carr, Andy Dalton, Goff, Cousins, Matt Ryan, Kyler, and Russell Wilson are small because they are all +/- either an inch or two or +/- 5-6 lbs. Yes, Zach is not Big Ben, nor is he Josh Allen, but he's not tiny. He's slightly below league average in both measurements. You'd think he was Kyler Murray with how most people talk about him on this board.
We would've had to pony up that money this offseason which is another factor as to why JD decided to move Sam when he did. Carolina accepted his player option in May to the tune of 18.9M for 2022, which is fully guaranteed.
Is it true about gingers? I've always wondered if a ginger up north is also a ginger down south. You seem like the perfect person to provide some clarity on the question
Yeah, it'll tell us that the Carolina Panthers are a better team this year than the New York Jets. Also, put me in the group of preferring Zach and a 2nd and 4th to Sam and 3 1st's and maybe another 2nd.
He's on the smaller side and looks a lot lighter than his listed weight. He's not short, but given his injury history (particularly to his shoulder), it's not a strange concern. Kyler Murray is also one of the fastest players in the league so he's made his own height irrelevant because he creates space and throwing lanes. Regardless, Wilson is still pretty much the lightest player on the board there. Carr + Cousins listed below I guess but neither has ever been hurt so it becomes irrelevant.
Who cares how he looks? Facts are facts. Now, I'm not naïve enough to think that all of the measurements given are 100% accurate but if we think Zach's numbers are fudged, then we have to assume all the other numbers are probably fudged too which makes this whole argument moot. If height and weight factor into injuries so much then what's the counter to Carson Wentz? He's on the top end of both height and weight for NFL QB's yet he's been injured in seemingly every season he's played in the NFL. Big Ben, surely a guy of his stature has never been injured, right? Lamar Jackson, someone who is technically smaller than Wilson, seemingly has no injury history in the NFL despite having a much higher risk of injury due to his playstyle. Point being, the vast majority of the time, injuries are random. They don't care if you're 5'10" 207 or 6'5" 240.
Some guys get injured a lot and some don't. There is an element of randomness to it for sure. If Wilson had no injury history, the concern over his size would be less magnified. If he had a previous knee injury, I don't think many would care. But it becomes magnified when he's getting slaughtered back there and has a very slight frame combined with a previous shoulder injury. As we know with Chad, a quarterback can usually survive and recover from one shoulder injury, but they are generally shot after the second.
If your argument is that he could be 1 injury away from being out of the league then I don't disagree but that's literally the case for everybody in the NFL. I also agree that the protection needs to improve or he'll get hurt, but that has nothing to do with his stature or an injury that occurred over 2 years ago. I would have the same mindset if we had Allen, Big Ben, Herbert, etc. under center.
Roethlisberger has always historically taken a fucking beating and played through it effectively. So he's a pretty bad example. Allen and Herbert were both nearly 240 at the combine and in general are big bulky guys. I have a lot more faith in the big dudes taking a beating than the small dudes. Tua is a good example of a small player whose now always hurt dating back to college.
