This is exactly what I am talking about when I mention that loyalty, disrespecting a player, etc, are just talking points. You need to pay a player not based on past accomplishments but on what they are worth to you in the future. Yes, Adams and Maye were the best players on shitty teams. It just doesn't mean you need to lock them up for a lot of CAP long term, considering their position, considering where we are in the rebuild process, considering they are still under contract using franchise tag, and in Marcus' case - also age. For a young FQB on a contender, the story is different, but this is simply not the case here.
What are you talking about, JD not in a position to pay? We had like the 3rd most FA money to spend this offseason and paying Maye 10 million a year isn't a "bloated contract". Your suggesting its okay to pay him 23 million for 2 years but only 25 million for 3. I'm afraid Maye's contribution is worth much more then your factoring in. If you think Maye is good enough to be FT'ed two seasons in a row then he is clearly worth a 3 year contract.
What the Patriots do in terms of contract negotiations and cap management has been state of the art for winning in the NFL through 2019. There is no "other" position in competition with The Patriot Way in terms of winning championships. The few teams that have been in the same realm with the Patriots, although not on the exact same level, have largely followed the same precepts the Patriots have established. These are: 1. Very few players viewed as irreplaceable with most players, even minor stars, allowed to walk if they won't take a cap-friendly salary. 2. Lots of draft picks from year to year and a commitment to maintaining a steady flow of talent from the draft. 3. Veteran free agents acquired as short-term fill-ins if they have an absolutely necessary role for the season, accept a cap-friendly salary and the expectation that they will only fill for a couple of years until a draft pick fills the role. 4. Social media tightly controlled with the understanding that anything that detracts from the team will be dealt with quickly and often with the player cut in the aftermath. 5. A clear division of star/core vs expendable and star/core expected to set an example for the expendable and more frequently than normal made a sacrificial lamb to make a point to the lockerroom. These are the things that work. They're how you keep a lockerroom together and successful from year to year over the decades. The stars on these teams are homegrown. When a star is brought in from outside, like Randy Moss on the Patriots, it is made clear that the situation is an exception and the player just as likely to be gone in two years as any other regular on the roster. The Jets are like the antithesis of most of the propositions above and that's why we blow chunks.
I agree with all except the very last sentence. Change the third word (are) to "were" and "blow" to "blew" and I'll agree with it too. IMO it's very clear that JD is moving in the direction of the Patriots, Steelers and others who handle the cap this way, and is not doing the same things as his predecessors.
Why do you keep trying to shoehorn our situation into the Patriots? I don't recall the time when the Patriots had zero pro bowlers, a 100 million in cap space, and low balled their best DB. Nobody is saying treat Maye as irreplaceable. Just give him the fair contract that he is worth. The only reason not to is if you don't think he is worth it. It has nothing to do with "the Patriots way".
(edit - this was meant to be included with my response to Brad) This was JD on March 4th: Marcus Maye was the New York Jets' best player in 2020, elevating his game following the Jamal Adams trade. The pending free agent should be a priority for a club with a lot of cap space and a talent deficit. "We have had productive conversations with his representatives," Douglas said, via the team's official website. "Our stance on Marcus hasn't changed as well. Marcus is a valuable member of this organization. Someone that started his career here, someone that's been a pro's pro. He's smart, reliable and has provided outstanding leadership. Our plan hasn't changed. We're in the process of working to have Marcus be here long term." Questions about Maye's future in New York swirled after Burkhardt responded to a tweet about the Jets' cap space: "...Yet refuse to take care of their best player, Captain, & team-voted MVP in his prime who had several All-Pro votes ... and who played out his entire rookie deal and even changed positions on his contract year (after they got rid of last year's All-Pro safety)." "I think [Burkhardt] is a great person, I've had a lot of great conversations with him," Douglas said. "You guys know how I feel about Marcus. This is part of the business. This is part of negotiating. I don't see this affecting our ability to get something done with Marcus that's beneficial for both him and the team."
Strong disagreement here. Joe Douglas inherited a loser team with literally none of those players deserving the contracts they wanted, including Adams asking for the moon. You don't build a winner by extending players who are not worth it, just because they were drafted by the Jets. I don't know what Maye asked for, but he was tagged, meaning Douglas and the Jets want him on the roster. I think Joe Douglas is building a winning team by doing things the right way. Nothing wrong with asking Maye to prove his worth in 2021.
By tagging Maye, JD already offered a one year 10 mil dollar contract for this year. Having 3d most FA money this season doesn't mean this will be the case 2-3 years from now. The reason why this one year tag is worth 10 mil is because at a Safety position this is the average of 5 highest paid players. I never suggested to give him 23 mil over two years, just said that we have an option to tag him this year for 10 mil (JD did that already) and IF Maye is a top 5 Safety in 2021, there is an option to tag him again at 12 mil in 2022. If his play is just OK or we have a better alternative, we don't even need to tag him. The point is that JD already has these short term options if Maye plays well - until he is 30 years old and his value will be much less. To give him a longer deal, which includes playing in his 30s, it would make sense that annual salary would have to be less than the franchise tag. Two years from now we would need to pay Q and negotiate extension with likes of Becton and who knows what else as the team is going through a rebuild. You do not want to have the committed salary cap of 10+ mil to a 30 year old safety at that time. Regardless of past accomplishments.
We went 2-14 last year. What is your definition of blowing chunks? We could have won 3 more games and the Jets would still fit my definition.
I'm not shoehorning us into the Patriots situation. I'm just pointing out that Bill Belichik would have laughed at Marcus Mayes demands and traded him for a 3rd round pick by now.
Let me boil it down for you all. Ouchy wanted to retain Sam Darnold and draft Devonta Smith at #2 (the next Jerry Rice/Randy Moss.) All his disdain for Douglass stems from that. If we didn't tender a punter he'd be the first one on this forum saying Douglas was wrong and should be fired. Look at the motivation, people.
During the 4 months of draft season I lobbied hard that we should trade the #2 pick. I never lobbied to keep Sam, although I expected us to sign a veteran backup. But that was before this board taught me that not signing a veteran backup was a good move. Just like they taught me that using our most valuable pick in history on the riskiest QB on the board, with the least amount of success, was the best move with that pick. I'll stand by my prediction that Smith is going to be the best WR in the draft, and the next Rice/Moss type receiver. Though considering my position was trading the 2nd pick I didn't spend much time saying we should take him at #2. My overall position was trade down and then take Smith. That said, who am I to argue with you about my position, considering you "know my motivations". Never said, or even hinted, that JD should be fired. I have disagreed with many of his rebuilding decisions this offseason, including his draft. Not trading the #2 pick, then using it on WIlson, is a way bigger negative to me then not taking Smith. But that was before I learned that we cant questions JDs decisions because they are always the best decisions a GM has ever made and we are guaranteed to become a top team. With that in mind I'm willing to see the fruits of his work before calling for his head. If we go down in flames this season I might move into the fire camp. But if that happens so will a lot of people. Rather then discussing the topic you show up just long enough to misrepresent what I said in the past. I've been Bickety'd.
How many threads did you make about taking Smith with the #2 pick? Three? Marcus Maye is a nice player but he's on the wrong side of 26 and he plays safety. It's not like we are low balling Ed Reed in his prime.
Three, five? I dunno you tell me, cause you know me. Everyone knows I had Smith at the top of my skill board. But using the #2 on Smith is not the best way to rebuild. Trading the #2 was, as I said in about 1000 posts. Here was my position from the start of the offseason: https://forums.theganggreen.com/threads/rebuilding-in-the-afc-east.95180/
Trading the highest pick in Jets history would have the worst move this team could have made. Sam had a chance to makes his case this past season and he out right stunk. He plays average the Jets win 3-4 more games and he still has a job. For the third straight year he missed games and his back-up looked better. When you have the number 2 pick and shitty QB you have to draft a QB. Put on the tape Sam was horrible last season. You can argue if Zach was the right QB, but with the offense we are running it is really hard to make that case. Then you look at the rest of the draft and where JD had them on his board he had a great draft. If Wilson, Elijah, AVT and Carter bust we can talk. Lets also look at what JD did in free agency. The Jets Defense will be the best in AFCE baring injury. What is it your are arguing again except to fire JD? The only thing the Jets have going against them season is that they are very young and playing in a tough division. The Dolphins and Tua are way overrated and the Patriots with Cam are way overrated. The Bills are legit on offense but they sacrificed their D to build it. The Jets will surprise a lot of teams this season.
Trading the #2 pick to say Denver and getting their #9, Drew Lock, and and 2 future number 1's would have produced everything we ended up getting, plus keeping the two #3's we traded to get Vera-tucker as we would have picked him with #9. We would then have a camp battle between Darnold and Lock with extra OL picks from the third rounders, and another 2 future #1 picks. I'd say you were right about that--unless Zach turns into Peyton Manning.
I don’t get why you (and others) say this is year 1 of a rebuild. - Tear down - JD replaced the entire OL year 1 - Trade assets for picks- JD traded our only valuable piece year 2 We have a ton of unknowns but the only positions we’re “bad” is TE and FB. Having a HC who’s known for getting the best out of his players means if JD brings in talent, Saleh will make them shine.
