Darnold turns down COVID Vaccine

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by JetFan20, Jun 9, 2021.

  1. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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  2. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    It is idiotic and selfish of Sam not to get vaccinated. Not only does he help the virus spread and needlessly contribute to killing more people but he puts his team in danger of him and other teammates for getting shut down for 2 to 3 weeks for a positive test.

    I know it is likely Zach might be doing the same thing. But, this endangers everything a team does for the season. It is hard to believe the QB and leader of a NFL team would not get vaccinated. What a terrible role model.
     
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  3. red75bronco

    red75bronco Well-Known Member

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    This is such garbage. There are many many cases of vaccinated people getting Covid as well as the “experts” saying vaccinated people can spread it. This is an experimental drug that has not been approved by the FDA and they are currently investigating younger adults, the vaccine, and enlarged hearts. What is idiotic and selfish is requiring a person to take a vaccine. If all other are vaccinated why would he need to be.
     
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  4. stinkyB

    stinkyB 2009 Best Avatar Award Winner

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    Well to be fair that's a bit of a push.... one big affect of younger, healthy adults (college athletes) that contract covid is myocarditis. (my cousin is a cardiologist)
     
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  5. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    1. Yes, one can get Covid while Vaccinated. Breakthrough cases are extremely rare and unlikely. The CDC estimates that the percentage of breakthrough cases is .0001 (or .01%) out of the first 100 million vaccinated. You could also be attacked by a duck while walking in your backyard but again that is extremely rare and unlikely.
    2. Your chance of getting and spreading covid while unvaccinated is infinitely higher than while vaccinated. Those that are not vaccinated help spread covid which will kill and harm others unnecessarily.
    3. Over 300 million vaccines have been given and the negative effects are extremely rare. The vaccines have proven safe. Much safer to the individual and society as a whole.
    4. From a team perspective not getting vaccinated endangers the team. It puts the QB and the team in danger of missing games needlessly. Especially, with the new much more contagious variants.
    5. Beucause of NFL Covid policies, Darnold not getting vaccinated will cause him to have to take a covid test everyday, isolate and distance himself from teammates and wear a mask on team facilities.

    Quite simply not getting vaccinated is stupid and selfish. It will help kill others for no reason and put the team at risk of having their season disrupted. Like it or not Covid is here to stay for years and it will continue to be a problem because people refuse to get vaccinated and because politicians refuse to hold these people accountable for the damage they are doing to society in helping spread the virus.
     
    #25 Noam, Jun 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
  6. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    My position is very simple: Any unvaccinated player who catches Covid should be treated like a player who injures himself doing something off the field in violation of his contract. So if you don't want to get vaccinated fine, but you should be held liable if you hurt the team by getting sick.
     
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  7. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    I would go further. He should be responsible for the damage he does to society. An actuary can determine this by calculating the probability of infecting people based on their behavior and interactions. With the average Covid hospital bill between 400k and 900k I would think the damage done to society by an unvacvinated person wandering around maskless would be in the millions. I agree they should be able to choose their lifestyle but if they make this choice they should pay up for the damage they do. If people demand their freedumb to infect others they should pay up for their poor decision.

    Without holding the unvaccinated financially accountable we have a situation where all the vaccinated people are once again forced to subsidize and pay for the poor decisions by these people just as those who followed social distancing rules, isolated themselves and wore masks have subsidized the poor behavior of the foolish who could not follow the rules the last year.
     
    #27 Noam, Jun 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
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  8. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    If an unvaccinated person puts someone in the hospital, that person was almost certainly also unvaccinated. So maybe you could argue that unvaccinated people who get hospitalized for Covid should have to pay for their hospital bill, but that's more a matter for their insurance company than the government. And I don't think the government should have the power to punish people for not getting vaccinated; setting that precedent could backfire in a big way in the future. (Imagine if an administration forces people to do something that is harmful.)

    Fortunately these vaccines pretty much guarantee that vaccinated people won't get hospitalized; if they weren't as effective, then we'd have a real externalities problem.
     
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  9. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    Sam unvaccinated? Another good reason for shipping him off

    Prediction: Beasley brings down the Bills with COVID outbreak
     
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  10. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    Your point is valid to an extent.
    1. The more unvaccinated that are out there the more the virus spreads. There is a multiplier effect that makes each new additional person worse than one before increasing the spread rate.
    2. We all pay and subsidize their hospital care in 3 ways. One is government subsidies for insurance and care, two is increased insurance cost and third is the shortage of health care. By using limited resources on covid cases it forces other people to wait for care which will result in more deaths and suffering.
    3. We will all suffer economically getting the country back to normal the longer Covid lasts which at this point is mainly dependent on getting everyone vaccinated.

    The government already regulates lots of activity that hurts others. Simply requiring people to pay for the costs of their bad acts is a good thing. As it encourages better behavior and saves us all money and resources. Add a 10 percent tax to gross income for those refusing to vaccinate and you will suddenly see a lot of these people getting vaccinated. I just wish we fined in 2020 those who were ignoring medical advice and doing their best to help spread the virus. We would have saved a lot of lives and money.
     
    #30 Noam, Jun 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
  11. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    Anti-Vaxxers = the result of a shitty American educational system. The gvt has been stripping the Education system for decades and between Anti-Vaxxers and Q-Anon we’re seeing the results.
     
    #31 KingRoach, Jun 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2021
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  12. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Argument 1 is true, but you could make Arguments 2 and 3 for tons of things like smoking, obesity, etc. And I get the government has passed cigarette taxes, soda taxes etc, but there's a difference between taxing things to disincentivize you from doing them and punishing you for *not* doing something, particularly this thing (in the event you can think of a punishment for not doing something, which unless I'm overlooking something obvious, won't really compare to something on this scale). I'm not convinced the benefits of getting more people vaccinated outweigh the costs of setting that precedent.
     
  13. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    It’s widely accepted wearing seatbelts saves lives. If you don’t wear your seatbelt (and get caught) you’ll be punished. Example requested and provided.
     
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  14. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    Yersinia Pestis, kinda gallows funny parallel crazy history repeating itself in modernity if you think about it. China . . . or so they say . . . whoever they is . . .

    [​IMG]
     
  15. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Not the same; you can take a seatbelt off, you can't undo being vaccinated.
     
  16. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    This was your statement I was replying to and my examples hold true.

    Out of curiosity, what “punishment” is the government handing out for not getting the vaccine?
     
  17. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Which is the reason why I used the qualifier "particularly this thing." I was looking for an example of something that could convince me there's good precedent for punishing people for not getting vaccinated, not something that's just an example of a punishment for not doing something. I mean the government can punish you for not wearing clothes in public, but that doesn't compare either.

    Currently, there is none, but @Noam was arguing in favor of large-scale fines for those not getting vaccinated, which I disagree with.
     
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  18. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    I would argue that asking people to pay the cost of their bad behavior is not forcing them to get vaccinated. They could always choose to not get vaccinated and isolste themselves 100 percent from others. Just as the government requires people to wear clothes around others they should require them to be vaccinated if they go out in public or pay the cost for the damage they cause. The same applies to many laws from drinking and driving and many others. If your going to endanger others and society you should expect and hope the government will protect your victims and regulate your behavior. It is about personal responsibility.
     
  19. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    There is no good president. People are fools not get their kids vaccinated (mmr) but it’s not the law.

    I think anti-vaxxers are dangerous fools but this is in fact the land of the free (except for vices Bc we were founded by puritans) so I don’t see a punishment as being realistic.

    I am a firm believer the “Freedom Dividend” (and the legalization of all drugs) would solve a ton of problems in this country and I could see “only citizens fully vaccinated” as a qualifier as a problem solving example of “rewarding people” who do it.
     
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  20. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    He felt uncomfortable with the question, but...

    He wouldn't have ever even been allowed in attendance @ Madison Square Garden for both the Knicks and Islanders Playoffs games... without the vaccination.
     
    #40 DefenseWinsChampionships, Jun 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2021

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