Yeah I mean if we're using incredibly broad generalizations like HOF supporting cast and subjective reasons to call a player a FQB you can throw Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Eli, and Aaron Rodgers in that basket and to a lesser extent guys like Joe Flacco, Carson Palmer, Donovan McNabb, Kirk Cousins, Cam Newton, Derek Carr, etc. It becomes the chicken or the egg argument too with elite receivers. Would they ever have been that great without the FQB? I guess the point remains valid to an extent though that Darnold is toast because he never had that. Because the only real players in the past three decades to recover from horrid starts and supporting casts in their early careers are Brees, Tannehill and Alex Smith. Two of which will probably never get to a SB.
My point is not about Darnold. It’s about drafting anyone of these QBs in this draft without having a talented roster to play with. There’s no great FA signings that will change the franchise, and none of these QBs are put a franchise on my back moxy caliber QBs to change the narrative. They are intriguing prospects at best you can develop with quality talent around them support - which we don’t have on the offensive side of the ball. Our entire offense except for Becton can be gone in 3 years. this is a complete rebuild JD is entering.
You don’t pass on a QB prospect you believe in because the rest of the team is bad...you draft the QB and build around him. The idea that you don’t take a QB until you have a good team to support him is nonsensical.
People think Jones won't get past belicheat at 15 it would be great value indeed if we picked him with our 3rd rounder
Jones has *one* year as a starting QB at the college level. His physical comparisons are to people like Matt Barkley and Landry Jones. I think we tend to tunnel vision because we have been so desperate for a QB for so long. We see grade 1b prospects like Fields and Wilson as can't miss 1a's. We see grade 2a prospects like Lance as grade 1b's or even 1a's. We see grade 3 prospects like Jones as surefire 1st rounders. It comes with the territory of being Jets fans. We over promote the talent because damn that guy looked good in college surrounded by more talent level vs the opposition than we are ever going to give him in the NFL. I don't doubt that some team could decide Jones was worth a 1st round pick. There have been a lot of over drafted QB's recently and a lot of failures on that basis alone. If the Jets are the team that over drafts Jones, well that could get ugly in a hurry because he'd go from the best roster in college football with the best offensive tools around him to the worst in the NFL and there'd be no place for him to hide. Put Jones on a good team with a year to get his feet on the ground and something interesting might happen. Put him on a dead end roster like the Jets and he's just getting training for his career backup job elsewhere - this assuming he isn't so damaged by playing for the Jets that nobody else wants to sign him when he is let go.
It is the WE that is sticky point in this post, why slag us off for over evaluating QB's I bet you can not find a single report that says Jones is worth a third round pick. This one suggest 1st round and maybe him even dropping as low as the Saints https://bamahammer.com/2021/03/05/alabama-football-what-nfl-experts-think-about-mac-jones/ Our friend Simms has him 3rd best QB on his list https://rolltidewire.usatoday.com/2...rterback-rankings-chris-simms-2021-nfl-draft/ A site I like but that means very little obviously, they have him around 21 and the 5th QB off the board. http://www.tankathon.com/nfl/big_board But if you think he is destined for the third round you will make a huge killing at the bookmakers https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/news/nfl/when-mac-jones-taken-2021-draft-over-under-opens-18-5/ Take the over and you will become a millionaire lol
I did a search on Mac Jones scouting report. The top 3 hits said: https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2021MJones.php - 3rd round pick, comp to Matt Barkley, ceiling Kirk Cousins. https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/mac-jones/xDz6q99pXy - QB 5, best role is lower tier starting QB, could be 1st rounder. https://www.profootballnetwork.com/mac-jones-nfl-draft-player-profile-2021/ - best chance to be QB5 in weak class, could be 1st round pick, best comp is Kirk Cousins. That's the first 3 hits and none of them will say outright that Jones is getting picked in the 1st round. All of them essentially say he is Kirk Cousins, with the lower tier starting QB screaming Cousins at us. Kirk Cousins was taken in the 4th round. Not exactly a scientific case because after reading the top 3 hits I just went with them - but it is clear that Jones is not seen as a strong talent at QB, just an interesting one that might catch the right teams interest and get over drafted as a result.
This isn't about the Jets; unless Douglas trades down, we're going to have better options than Jones. But most mock drafts have Jones going in the first round, and the betting markets currently have him as a mid-first rounder. Regarding the scouting sites that have him as a 3rd round pick, that's scoutspeak that has no bearing on reality (unless you're Maccagnan who actually believed that stuff). It's one step away from knocking a prospect because his girlfriend is ugly.
Ok I typed Mac Jones Draft predictions First hits for me off google in the UK Pick 6 https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft...board-chargers-land-tight-end-with-no-4-pick/ pick 15 https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft...ks-patriots-grab-mac-jones-panthers-trade-up/ 90% 1st round pick https://tdalabamamag.com/draft-player/mac-jones-alabama-nfl-draft-2021/ Number 12 https://thespun.com/sec/alabama-cri...s-what-happens-to-mac-jones-in-2021-nfl-draft number 8 https://www.espn.co.uk/nfl/draft202...s-including-mac-jones-trey-lance-three-trades Started 2020 season as a 3rd round choice ended it as a probable 1st round selection https://nflmocks.com/2021/02/01/2021-nfl-draft-scouting-mac-jones/ Number 8 https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/25/panthers-mac-jones-mel-kiper-mock-draft/ How odd that my entire first page has not one single option other than a 1st round selection. He will not go in the third round.
I love how people expect the worst statistical QB of the last 3 years to suddenly turn it around in the most difficult media market, coming back to a fan base that has been sitting at home without live games for 2 years, with (like it or not) some of the highest expectations in years because of a new coaching staff and an roster with massively upgraded (on paper) talent. You know what kind of pressure that would be for a great QB, let alone a young 23 year old that has been, by the statistics and regardless of how it happened, the worst in football? A QB that hasn't been able to stay on the field and play 16 games once, and that now has upside-down economics for the position (4th year of his rookie QB is the absolute danger zone of salary), publicly had 2 of his top 3 WRs from a year ago give him at best a lukewarm endorsement to come back, and only to have the GM come out and give him a less lukewarm endorsement this past week. When we have the chance via resources to either trade for or draft a new QB. But yes lets role Sam back out again. Jets fans are amazing. It's almost like it's in our DNA to settle for a notch above pathetic. If anyone can look at Sam and say he has the potential to be the MVP of the league at any point in his career (which should be the bar you are striving for at the most important position in sports) then give me what you are smoking.
While most of the mocks I have seen aren't showing him falling that far, Mac Jones has felt like that False Hype guy that teams are using to distract from the player they really want. There's nothing about his skillset that screams first round to me and Bama QBs are JAGs by design. If he goes in the first round it is only because of the number of QB-needy teams around the league.
I mean...we have to have topics each week and the offseason is pretty long lol I am one of the people who is fully prepared to move on from him, but I don't think it makes sense to say there isn't a single reason. The 1 reason is kind of obvious, no?
I'm not saying you shouldn't discuss it. There are obviously still some people who want Sam to be the Jets' QB. Sorry, but I don't see one reason to keep him. Not one. IMO that reason is pure sentimentality/guilt/emotional. IMO it is not rational and doesn't make sense from a football perspective or a financial perspective. IMO it's a fairy tale to think we can keep Sam, trade down for a "haul of picks," his flaws will suddenly disappear over night, he will become a top 10 QB in the NFL and he will take the Jets to a SB victory.
It is actually keeping Sam and trading the number 2 pick away and filling the team with as much talent as possible and then thinking QB next season. The upside is filling the team with top 50 picks and more the next season if we extract a kings ransom for the #2 So that is the one and only reason to keep him.
That is not a valid reason as has been amply explained in the QB threads. Building the team up as much as JD can do even without the "haul" of picks for trading down, the Jets most likely won't be drafting in the top 10 next year. If we are, then JD hired the wrong HC. Even with only a little improvement from Sam and his normal inconsistency, we ought to be able to win at least 6-7 games. Next year's QB class will not be as good as this one. There will be no Lawrence or Wilson in next year's QB class. The odds are that we wouldn't even be able to trade up, but even if we were able to find a team willing to do so, we'd wind up having to give up more than the haul we got this year, which would mean that we couldn't continue to build around our QB, and odds are that QB wouldn't be as good as Wilson. Sorry, but that is simply not a valid reason. It's unrealistic and wasteful of draft capital.
Yeah, agreed. You have to think logically on this. I support Sam and still think he will succeed in the NFL, but I also think the Jets must trade him. Give him a fresh start, let Douglas and Saleh pick the QB of their choice, and start fresh in 2021. The only reason I could see the Jets keeping Sam is if they truly were not sold on Wilson or Fields or Lance or Jones. That is highly unlikely to occur. From all I have seen and read, Zach Wilson fits perfectly into Mike LaFleur's offense. I have seen this argument brought up before, and it is true, but to me the most important position in the NFL is QB. The Jets already have plenty of draft picks and cap space to build a good roster the next couple of seasons. You can't succeed without the QB though. Sam has not shown enough to say he will be the QB. Again, if you are sold on Wilson, you make the pick. Slam dunk. If not, then the Jets have more to think about.
That's irrelevant to the statement that was being answered tbh. 'I can't think of one single reason to keep Sam.' was the statement I just gave the one reason you keep him. I didn't say keep him, I didn't say I wanted him to stay, it has nothing to do with Wilson@#2 just giving the one reason to keep him, that one upside in keeping Sam is trading away the #2 for a king's ransom and making vast improvements to the squad as a whole and on that front, Sam can still be traded and another vet brought in for the same scenario to work.
I think he meant reasons that involve Sam. Like his play on the field or his contract. Having a new GM that did not draft him. A new Head Coach in Saleh. All point to moving on. Trading the #2 pick doesn't mean you keep Sam either. You could trade the #2 pick, get the #8 pick, 2022 1st round pick, and a 2nd round pick. Use the #8 pick on Fields or Lance, and then trade Sam for a 2nd round pick and end up with Lance, a 1st round pick in 2022 and two 2nd round picks. But yes, there are literal reasons to keep Sam obviously. I think @NCJetsfan was just making a general statement. There are way more reasons to trade Darnold than there are to keep him right now.
