Easy. Mike McCagnan and Christian Hackenberg. Mac was so desperate to be 'right' he forced the team to keep Hack and subsequently overlooked Mahomes/Watson in the next draft. Look, anyone who thinks GMs don't care about being considered a 'brilliant drafter and talent evaluator' is nuts. They do. They ALL do. Could JD forgo drafting his own FQB and just trade for one? Sure. But that's not the point. The point I made is JD would have far more street cred within the GM/Owners circle if he DRAFTED his FQB vs just trading away his draft for some other team's FQB.
Not as much as Beli got for drafting him in the first place...don't ya think? This was a discussion of what's best for a GM's reputation: Drafting his FQB or just trading for one. What do you think?
I think it's unlikely that a team is offering any sort of assets above a third round pick for Sam. In which case scenario, I'd consider keeping him and making him the stopgap for next season. If he becomes an absolute star then you have a good situation on your hands. If he improves, but not good enough to want to commit to, then your team and players likely developed and you can insert your draft pick with a more seasoned supporting cast. And finally, if he absolutely blows, you can take a look at getting your draft pick in at the EOY (which isn't ideal IMO). But if we can get a high third, second or even first then I'd probably do it since I want Wilson or Fields on the bench in year one as long as possible. And if a first or second were on the table I'd imagine the triggered would've been pulled already.
If JD trades Sam too soon, it puts him in a vice. We become a team with no starting QB on the roster. This could force JD to over-trade for Watson or draft a rookie QB he's not really sure of. JD may be waiting to get a hint from the Texans or at least get thru the pro-days of the top QB prospects before shipping Sam out. Sam's his security blanket. The fact that Sam is still on the roster might say more about how JD feels about Waston/Fields/Wilson than any offers he may have gotten for him.
I agree in general with you, but I feel like Darnold will (could) go for a 2nd and maybe even a late 1st. I think a lot of the QB situations aren’t resolved yet so no one wants to commit, but we’ll see how it all takes shape pretty soon Maybe JD is hanging on to Sam in a potential Watson trade, if he thinks the Texans value him at all
But you keep talking about the coaches. You haven’t mentioned the GM’s once... that’s my point. Drafting vs. FA: There will be stories to go around when reminiscing about how the winning team was built, so I’m good either way. The only move I’m against is drafting a qb at #2.
Actually, the bold isn't true. Sam is a FA after the 2021 season unless JD does something stupid and picks up the 5th year option. So if Sam plays well, he walks in FA and the Jets get only a bottom of the 3rd round compensatory pick for him. If he plays poorly, they may not even get that.
I disagree. Gase was trying to save his job. There was never any chance that Morgan was going to play unless both Darnold and Flacco were both injured. Even then, Gase may have signed an emergency vet street FA. He wasn't trying to develop players for the future or see what rookies could do. He knew he wasn't going to be here this year.
No one knowledgeable about the game or the Jets' situation, but certainly a bunch of Jets fans could.
The only problem with this is that more than likely, Atlanta will take a QB at #4 and Carolina will at #8. Miami could surprise and take a QB as well. So JD wouldn't be able to trade down past #7, and even then Carolina or another team needing a QB could trade up. That's why I don't think he would get killed for taking a QB on at #2 that he wasn't completely sold on. He could think that the QB he took is a great prospect and be 90-95% sold on him. Until you get a FQB, you have to keep rolling the dice. Again, rolling the dice at #2 and missing is better than trading up from #12 or #15, burning a number of future #1 picks to get up into the top 3-4 picks and that player missing. I'm not a betting man, but if I were, I'd bet the ranch that JD takes a QB at #2, and most likely it will be Wilson or Fields.
General Managers do not make their reputations by drafting QBs, they make their reputations by building championship teams. How many people even remember the name of the GM that drafted John Elway? If they do, it's because of other things, not because he was a one-hit-wonder GM. Belichick is the exception only because Brady developed into much more than anyone could have ever expected, and if Bill believed in him that much, he would have taken him in the first round. Ultimately, JD has to make a decision. "Can Sam be reset to the player that was drafted, or not"? If the answer is yes, continue to accumulate picks and build out the roster. Even if the answer is "no", don't be surprised if JD holds the course and continues to build out the roster while riding Sam one more season. Why? Not only because there's next year's draft, but because in a Covid world QB trades have suddenly become more commonplace (Goff, Wentz, Stafford). QBs don't stay with their drafting teams any longer, they become available. Times have changed.
I disagree. I don't think there's any chance that JD will roll with Sam and put off drafting a QB until next year. That's too risky with too little chance of return, and would delay the rebuild another year. The Jets need to worry about building their team into a contender, not trying to salvage Sam's career. Next year's draft will most likely not be as good a one for QBs, and the Jets will be drafting lower, so that would be a big mistake, and probably a fireable offense if Fields or Wilson start day one and play at a high level, and Sam struggles again. Times may be changing, but that's not proven yet. This year could be an aberration. Both Philly and LA were fed up with the failures of their QB and decided to move on. That has happened in the past with QBs. That's really not new. LA and Indy are built to win now, so they wanted better QB play from a veteran than what they were getting, and didn't want to take a chance on a rookie or wait for him to develop. Detroit needs to rebuild, and they were willing to give Goff a shot since he's younger, and because their organization is as dysfunctional as the Texans. The bold is exactly why those who are advocating building the team first then looking for a QB are flat out wrong. Once the team is built or close to built, no HC wants to take a chance on a rookie QB or wait for him to develop. They want a veteran who knows how to play and that the HC thinks he can trust. Also, as the team gets better and better, they draft lower and lower, and have less and less a chance of getting a FQB in the draft both because no elite QB prospects fall that far, and they're drafting so late that no team wants to trade down that far, or the cost would be ridiculous prohibitive for the team to trade up and then their window to win would be short. Since QBs can have the longest career of any position and great ones are so hard to find, one has to take a QB that one thinks has great potential when one gets the chance, regardless of what state their team is in. If you get the QB first and build around him, by the time he has settled in and developed you can have a 5-10 year window, maybe more.
Im fine with rolling the dice until we find a QB, but if you’re sitting at 2 overall and you think all the top QBs are pretty similar (you don’t love any of them in particular) then it makes sense to me to try to trade down a few slots and take the best of what’s left. Atleast you would be mitigating some risk of the QB dice roll by picking up extra draft capital to improve the team in other ways It’s why I was against trading up to #3 with the Colts a few years ago. I liked Baker, Darnold, Lamar Jackson, and Josh Allen and I knew one of them would be there at 6. I wasn’t completely sold on any of them, so why give away a ton of picks in the process? If the Jets trade back to still take a QB, it would be that line of thinking but in reverse Now if they love Fields or Lance or Wilson much more than any of the other options then I’d be fine in holding at 2 and taking the QB
I was not advocating one approach over another. I'm simply stating what I see happening. There are four things we know about JD. 1. He values acquiring draft capital and building through the draft. 2. He doesn't seem inclined toward splashy big-name free agent signings. 3. He's deliberate and methodical in his approach. 4. He's publicly stated (albeit a year ago) his desire to protect Sam and give him weapons. Personally, I favor two options: Keep Sam for 2021 without exercising his option and see if he can be reset by the new staff, or trade down a few spots, take Mac Jones, and trade Sam. Jones is not flashy, but in this system, he'll be a damn good pro. For me, Watson is off the table at the price I'm hearing. It's not just the draft capital, it's the fact that it's all PREMIUM draft capital. Wilson scares me because of the lack of competition last year, it was men playing against boys or Senior Varsity playing against a bunch of JV squads, plus he has Hackenberg feet - he sets them backward pre-snap, that may be trivial and easily fixable, or it might be an indicator of other technical problems, we'll find out. I like the way Fields played through adversity, but then I ask "why couldn't he beat out Jake Fromm in Georgia"?
Build around Sam? No. Doesn't get any simpler than that. Easiest decision JD will make this offseason.
We need a qb more than any team in the NFL. We have the worst qb in the NFL, has been for 3 yrs. Our GM realized it last yr and chose to tank. He gave him no weapons this yr. I give JD credit , somehow there seems to be some good faith in the Media for Sam, and what is even crazier as fans we have watched Sam for 3 yrs , he has not improved. He misses quite a few games Hell 3 yrs at any job and you do not improve at all, no matter what the circumstances you find ways to improve. You find ways to raise above your situation if you are a winner.
Yes, he will be FA, but what I was referring to is that if Sam plays well, we will franchise tag him and then will do sign and trade if the rookie develops well enough to have Smith/Mahomes like situation. Something similar to what NE did with Matt Cassel, except if Sam plays well he will have a lot more value than Matt did at the time. And even for Matt NE got 34th overall plus got rid of a bad contract. The point is that if either Sam breaks out next year, or the rookie QB develops, we will be sitting pretty and have FQB situation solved, which is half the battle right there. And if both of these things happen, we will have FQB AND get some really good assets by franchise tagging Sam and trading either him or the rookie. Now, I think there is only a small chance Sam does that, but if we are only offered a 3d round pick, it might be worth giving it a shot and have rookie QB start the season on the bench.
I thought about that too (not picking up Sam's 5th and tagging him if he plays really well). I just didn't know if that's possible. I mean if we turn down his 5th yr, can we still tag him? That would solve a lot if we can.
Sam or no Sam, I have been a strong proponent of building this team properly thru the draft. We have a golden opportunity again this year behind a new staff, a very good GM and an envious set of picks over the next three years. Further, there is nothing at this point that makes JD believe Sam is our guy for the long haul. More the better. So if any of the top QB candidates are viewed as good NFL prospects he has no choice but to consider a selection. We are in a sweet spot to strike for a QB in the first round if they see one with the right credentials, and then continue with his long term upgrade plan. If Watson was not in the picture that would absolutely be the plan. So unless he can get better long term value with a trade for Watson, BENEFITING THE FUTURE OF THE ENTIRE TEAM , then IMO that is the exactly the path he will STICK WITH. He is not going to go for the proverbial what ever it takes and then build the team with over paid short term free agents and smoke and mirrors with a limited set of picks. For once we have a GM that values the draft, knows how to get the best out of the picks and we should embrace it. Houston not Watson should should be put on the driver seat for this trade.
Heh, heh. The question was why the "best" general managers would act according to your plan and the best answer you have is about Mike MacCagnan? My point has been that no decent General Manager needs to reinforce his own "street cred," he needs to win ball games. Period.
