Straight-up trades I'd make for Chad without thinking too hard: Tom Brady Peyton Manning Marc Bulger Carson Palmer Philip Rivers I'd think on it overnight and probably make the trade: Drew Brees Ben Roethlisberger Donovan McNabb Michael Vick (move him to tailback and go find me a QB) Might make the trade but I'd be sweating: David Carr J.P. Losman Matt Hasselbeck Matt Leinart Tony Romo Alex Smith Would not make the trade even though some other people think the guy's the second coming of Otto Graham: Eli Manning Jay Cutler Brian Grossman Byron Leftwich Jake Delhomme Chris Simms Aaron Rodgers Matt Schaub
My point being, the Beagles always play well without McNabb, so it's hard to credit him for their success, I think Andy Reid has much to do with it.... And to all the NYJets fans that think Peyton Manning is a worthwhile trade, did they put a dome on the Meadowlands and someone forget to tell me, or did the lone win in New England in bad weather somehow instill confidence theat P.M.s can actually play outside in the poor weather....(oh, and BTW, tell me how he's done this year On the road, inside his division....down the stretch...) peyton manning is, was, and always will be a great stats guy, but kind of a sissy. Wait and see during the playoffs, who cries for more flags, p.m.s. or Tony D....
I think people overrate the dome factor, most teams play better at home but his problems with the Pats have nothing to do with being on the road or in the cold. He torched the Chiefs on the road in 03 and the Steelers had him floundering for most of the game until they stopped pressuring him in the dome last year.
Let's just say it's not every day that Ron Dayne puts up over 150 rushing yards. If you think Pennington is a better QB than P Manning then I'd like to have some of whatever you're having.
As am I. This year's flavors of the week seem to be Romo and Rivers. But it wasn't even a year ago when everybody would have traded their mother to get Roethlisberger, now he's old news. Rivers has been basically awful for a month now but I guess things like accuracy and interceptions get pushed under the rug when you're team is winning so convincingly. Romo on the other hand is nothing more than a one trick pony. Phil Simms had him figured out 4 weeks ago, he's strictly a one read system QB with great scrambling ability, first read not open? Dump it off. Kept in the pocket he's below average at best. He can't pick a defense apart, he's not a cerebral QB. And it remains to be seen what kind of upside this guy has, this is his 4th year, it's not a given he will get better. On the contrary there is a good chance we've seen the best of this guy. Chad does not get the respect he deserves, he hasn't been great this year, but he's been steady and is one of the biggest reasons why we're going to the playoffs this year. I think people rip on him because they lack perspective. Not to say they are ignorant to what is going on in the rest of the NFL, but more in the sense that they see what they what to see when it comes to certain things.
An argument I hear alot is that "QB X couldn't run this offense like Chad does". This ignores the fact that they wouldn't have to run this type of offense if they had a QB with a stronger arm. The Jets had 18(!) third down attempts against the Dolphins out of a total of 60 plays. Yeah, the converted 7 of them, but is it any wonder that the Jets have such a hard time scoring points when most scoring drives require 3 or 4 do or die 3rd down plays? It's a recipe for failure, but I also recognize that it's the best option with Pennington under center. Which is why I'm anxiously awaiting a time when this is no longer necessary.
In a subsequent post, you praised Romo, so I will leave him a lone Hasselbeck: didn't need a reason. led a team to the Super Bowl. Cutler: Your analysis makes no sense. You ask how many QBs have failed under Shanahan and then mention that "even Plummer had success". I live in Denver and have watched Cutler. Everyone went crazy over his bomb to Walker, but I wasn't the least bit surprised. During the pre-season he proved he had a cannon and was pretty accurate. The kid can make every throw in the book and with a tutor like Shanahan (who "even" made Jake Plummer good and made Griese into a passing leader) he has more potential than most young NFL QBs. Young: I have watched his games as well. The team is winning with the running game and defense, sort of like when Roethlisberger and the Steelers went 15-1. He is a below average passer, but has a knack for making plays with his feet. He is basically a younger Mike Vick with a horrible throwing motion. So why would you want Young but not Vick...doesn't make sense. I'd rather have Leinart, Romo and definitely Cutler over Young. Vick: I read your previous posts and I just have a different opinion.
The question really is that sorry to say you do not see can CP with his weak arm bring us back from say 2 or more TDs down in the 4th qtr when deep & sideline passes are required with zip on them. You must think of the team 1st not the player & IMHO you are thinking of the player not the team
Chad doesn't have an "arm"! We need a quarterback with an "arm". We need such armed winners as; Aaron Brooks Mike Vick Kerry Collins Eli Manning Brian Griese Alex Smith Rex Grossman All of these quarterbacks can "make all the throws"! We need to sign them now! So what if Chad is 30-22. We need more zip on the 15 yard out and I've seen Aaron Brooks do that!
I find this to be absurd. A new staff came in with their offense and held an open competition to see who could run it. Two of the guys had big arms, Chad beat them out. If he couldn't run it the way they wanted to they would have gone with someone else. There were no favorites and there is no way they were going to compromise what they wanted to do right out of the gate to accomodate anyone. And they do throw down the field, if you've noticed. Nobody throws down the field all the time anyway, so we have the element of surprise when we do it and it works. Monday night, in the rain and with the flu, Chad hit JMac deep, got a PI call on another and hit Cotchery for the TD, also down the field.
I don't understand why people who would like to see a more physically-gifted QB at helm (and the offensive possiblities it would bring) are considered putting down Pennington and not giving him "respect". I am pretty sure most posters realize that the team would not be were it was if not for Chad and he is playing pretty well in an offense that is designed for his strengths. However, many people think that an offense that is designed to get to 3rd-and-short has limitations that will preclude this team from getting to/winning a Super Bowl.
True! The Ravens and Bucs had no chance in their Super Bowls with their conservative offense. We need a high flying offense like the Raiders and Rich Gannon had or the Giants with Kerry the Drunk!
That's a completely facetious argument. Just because Ryan Leaf was a strong-armed QB does not make strong-armedness a negative characteristic. The facts about Chad are that he is a weak-armed game manager. He's very successful when the opponent is not too strong, or when the defense gives him a huge game or when the opponent makes a lot of mistakes. He's unsuccessful when the opponent has a strong defense and a better than average offense. That describes 90% of all playoff teams. For the Jets to take the next step up the ladder they are going to need to find a QB who can win a game occasionally when all the x-factors say he should lose. That QB will still lose big games now and then, but the Jets offense won't just rollover and die when a strong team comes to town the way it has in the last 4 years.
Yes CP is a big reason we are where we are now. For the rest of your post check out Shanny in Den & see why he canned Jake for Cutler & there is your answer
As for those "deep balls" on Monday night (and, yes, I know it was raining): JMac: yes, he should have caught it without help from the DB, but a stronger throw and JMac is probably streaking down the sidelines. PI Call: A direct result of an underthrown ball Cotchery: Beautiful pass, right on the money
I'll admit to making this argument in the past, although my last post was not of that sort, it's true our current offense is tailored to what Chad does best. A credit to our current coaching staff which has given Chad much more control of the offense. I can't disagree with anything you said, but I will add this, don't you think if we added a running game that actually presented some concern to opposing teams and possibly even a legitimate pass catching TE to this offense we'd look a lot different than we currently do? Personally, I don't think all the problems of this offense stem entirely off of Pennington lack of arm strength.
Not only is it facetious, but when you take a closer look at some of the names at the list you have to wonder exactly what kind of point he's trying to make. Collins has had a better career then Pennington, including leading his team to a SB. Vick and Brooks have also won first round playoff games, Manning may be going to the playoffs for the 2nd time in 2 years as a starter and Grossman is the QB of a team that's 13-2.
I love Chad as our QB but I still think there are alot of guys that are better. His arm strength, whether we win or lose, is an issue. In my opinion, for the Jets to ever win a Super Bwol with Chad at QB, we need a top 3 running offense. If we cannot hurt teams with the run all at an point in a game, then we will eventually run into a D that will just plain shut us down. We might see that happen in the playoffs this year. Chad Pennington, as much as I like his dedication, gamesmanship, and accuracy/timing/smarts, is a limited QB. If you put Chad Johnson and Randy Moss (when he is playing well and healthy) on the Jets, do you think their abilities would be maximized with Chad as much as if Brady or Palmer or Manning or Bulger were the QB? Maybe there would be less "throwing the ball up" and more of Chad throwing to spots where he knew the guy would be, but without a good running game, it doesn't matter who we have at WR, Chad will always be limited. We go deep very infrequently, and deep for the Jets is at the high end of medium depth for most other teams. When the Jets get the ball at their own 30 yards line with under 2 mins to go in a half, they always run the clock out. Why do you think this is? The answer is easy. Now, Chad is a good quarterback, and is maybe top 10 in the league, but he is only in the upper echelon when he plays in favourable conditions...and that will always limit him and this team.
It is frustrating when people point to the Ravens and the Bucs as they are the exception, not the rule. Furthermore, there defense was dominating...among the all-time great defenses. (As 3rd pointed out yesterday, with all the money invested in the offense the Jets, most likely, will not be able to afford a dominating defense) Of all the teams that make the Super Bowl, how many have a below average?
