I've see him just freeze multiple times against college zone defenses. Low end starter is laughable imo You have your right to that opinion. Sorry, I just don't see it. It hasn't been surprising at all that out of nowhere Mcshay and Kiper started pushing Fields lower on their mock drafts. Someone in an NFL front office told them.
I trust a guy like Theismann over a lot of the so-called "experts", and I tend to agree with him, even though it goes against the consensus - I think Wilson could be better than Lawrence. He's made more and more accurate deep throws than Lawrence and hasn't played with the level of surrounding talent Lawrence has had. My only real concern is the injuries and surgeries he's had - is he durable enough? If he can stay healthy, he can be a great QB.
The talent level is relative though. Clemson has top talent for the level they compete at. BYU has the top talent for the level that they competed at this year. BYU historically plays a bunch of Pac 12 schools, but due to the conference only schedules this year they played a bunch of teams from the Sun Belt, Conference USA and Mountain West. That's not to say that smaller school prospects can't become good players and Wilson can't. But it's not like Clemson's talent level above the ACC is so much higher than BYU's was above schools like UTSA and Texas State.
i won't speak for everyone, but i think the issue is whether the QB is worth the slot. If he is according to your criteria sure pick him. But if you're picking a guy who is only worth the 7 slot (hypothetically) at the 2 slot because QB is important and you're desperate then you're arguably not building things the right way. I personally have no idea if any of these guys are worth the 2. I do know historically that there have been a lot of flubs at the top reaching for QBs. I do know there have been talented QBs selected to crap teams and team still plays crap. IMO great teams are almost always a result of depth and breadth of talent. It's more often the case they're great because they scored on Wilson in the 3d, or Sherman in the 5th (?) or Tyreke Hill where he was, etc. Some of the absolute best QBs in the game are guys who slipped. Mahomes was 3d QB. Rodgers late first, and of course Wilson, Brees, Brady Obviously luck is a factor, but so to was having a great, disciplined and smart organization. Time will tell, but I have more confidence in Douglas than a Jets GM in a loooong time..
Reading Ds is definitely something he needs to work on, but that's different than field awareness. That's fine. We can agree to disagree. It's interesting how we posters can see things so differently from each other. It's frustrating at times, but I guess what makes life interesting and keeps sites like this from being boring and everyone agreeing all the time. It will be interesting to see how the NFL views the QBs, WRs and RBs in particular this draft.
I "liked" your post because I agree in general with the philosophy of building a strong foundation before you can expect any QB to succeed. But building that foundation does not have to necessarily be a prerequisite, it can be done in concert with getting your FQB, or if necessary, be done after securing the FQB as long as it actually IS done. What I mean by that is that taking Darnold and then failing to provide him a sound OL and good weapons was the worst thing to do, but if he had been given those things, even after being drafted, his performance would've been much better. In the present, we have a chance for a "do over". We could take a QB again. If Douglas has identified a guy who can be his FQB then getting "cute" by trading back and hoping his preferred guy is still there is a bad idea. And really, what is the difference between saying a QB is worth a #7 pick but not higher? I don't know how you can make that evaluation. And given that no GM knows how any other GM values QBs (or any player), he can't know that by trading back he's safe. Bottom line: If a team needs a QB they should do their best to determine who that guy is likely to be and then take him at their first opportunity, even if the "draft values" say he could've been taken a few spots lower. Then, having done that, ensure his success by investing in the OL and weapons, even if you have to "starve" the defense to do it.
Even accounting for the talent level of the opponents - that is, while Clemson's and Alabama's talent is very high, so is the talent of their opponents - Lawrence and Jones are throwing to very likely successful (if not All Pro) NFL receivers, protected by NFL-quality OL. Few, if any, of Wilson's teammates will play in the NFL. This transcends whatever the opposition talent level is.
I understand what you are saying but the Jets have a need at the QB position and it's the hardest position to fill (especially for us). We haven't had FQB since Namath. And just because Wilson, Fields, Lance aren't "generational sure fire can't miss" prospects like Lawrence doesn't mean you take a pass when you have a shot at what most consider real high quality prospects (I know some hate Fields, etc. but that's not my point). I believe the Jets need to address the QB situation that has dogged them for 40+ years. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know a lot about college football. But I've been reading a lot this past year because of the way Sam played. It just looked more and more like he wasn't the answer. So here is my question: How does Fields, Wilson and Lance compare as prospects to guys like: Sam Bradford Cam Newton Jake Locker Blaine Gabbert RGIII Blake Bottles Jameis Winston Marcus Mariota Jared Goff Carson Wentz Mitch Trubinsky Pat Maholmes (I left out Luck because I know the answer to that one.) Can you put this year's crop of QB prospects in with those names? And yes, a bunch on that list have failed to live up to their draft position. That's not the point. The point is they were regarded as the top guys coming out of college and teams took a chance on them. Barring a trade for Watson, I want the Jets to take another swing at a FQB and it should start with the one they feel is the best available this year and that most likely means picking him at #2. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
all of these posts about how we need a QB so we should pick at first opportunity etc, sounds like going to the super market when you're hungry, and then you buy all sorts of junk food. we need to stay disciplined and objective. Every year there are other prospect. Every year there's a QB shaking loose from another organization. Every year there's buyer's remorse from convincing yourself this high pick is the guy (Sam meet Mark, Mark meet Sam, Sam and Mark, meet Marcus, Jamis, Mitch, Carson is waiting outside and he wants to say hello too as soon as he's done talking with Jared. We'd invite Josh ROsen but no one knows who he is anymore. Lamar says hello but couldn't make it because as the 31st pick he's polishing his MVP award)
If there's one shaking loose every year, wouldn't we have found one in the last 40+ years? Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Check out Tim Jenkins breakdown of Mac Jones. Seems to make a lot of sense. Tim thinks Mac is right there with Wilson and Fields as great prospects. Thinks Jones is most NFL ready. Ranks Wilson top among the three. https://youtu.be/R4ybhaFcgc8
I get the argument you're making but I think the "value" thing goes out the window with QB's. The reality is that QB's get taken earlier than anyone thinks every year. That's just how it is. If you don't play the game because you think a guys "true value" is to be taken 4 spots later than your pick you'll never get one.
Thank you for the video. Interesting take. Great arm, live arm, perfect natural form, checks all the boxes. What I have read so far, from a pure QB perspective, he doesn't seem to have too many short comings. Wonder how he is at quickly processing information and reading defensive schemes.
I think if not for the injury concerns Wilson would be the clear #2 QB in this draft. He already does some advanced QB things well like looking off safeties with his eyes. Ever since Mahomes everyone is crazy about QB's who can throw with different arm angles which Wilson also excels at.
Thanks. Jenkins is hard for me to understand, but putting in the effort does pay off. Even with this breakdown though it's hard to really know how much of Jones's success is due to the talent he has to work with. He does make the throws he needs to make and has a good, strong accurate arm, and he makes quick decisions, but would he be able to do that with lesser talent on his team (like on the Jets)? I will say that I'm really afraid he's going to go to N.E. and kill us.
What I've heard several times is that one of his strongest traits is his quick decision making ability.
I’m ready to change my early priority list based on what I’m hearing and reading about Wilson. If Wilson is JDs target, then take him at two and do not trade down. If for some miracle we could get a first for Sam, may be we could wrap it with the 23 and trade up and get us a stud WR to match up with Mims. In JD I trust.
The big difference is that Mahomes throws from all arm angles is a little bigger and stronger and hasn't had a rotator cuff surgery already. Wilson throws everything or almost everything 3/4 which puts a lot more strain on his his shoulder and rotator cuff. I really like Wilson, but that is a huge concern for me.
Zach did not have rotator cuff injury. It was a labrum injury. No one knows the extent, but looks like torn labrum. He did play on it entire freshman season before getting surgery. I agree, it is a concern, so Jets would need to see independent medical evaluations, etc. However, it has been two years now since surgery and he took some big hits in the area, one of which was him literally jumping over a guy and then falling from the top right on his shoulder. Makes me feel better that it held up. Also from the reports it looks like it is no where near as bad as Brees' one, and doctors were saying Brees was 100% recovered without extra risk to get reinjured. Overall, yes, this injury and smaller size is a concern, but I am hoping he measures well and passes medical evaluation to make this a lot less so. Speaking of labrum injury, looks like Trevor got one now on non throwing shoulder: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/05/trevor-lawrence-has-labrum-injury-in-left-shoulder/ Check this at 1:30 and also 5 minute mark. The whole thing is actually fun
