Right. So you do not think it would be bizarre for a team to break the trend that has yet to be broken (and likely for a reason).
I think you are severely severely underestimating just how badly we failed Darnold. There's a reason that even after getting WORSE year after year, Sam has a trade market and it's rumored to at least be in the day 2 range. Gase is one of the worst coaches in recent history, he has a proven track record of holding players back and in some cases, making them worse. Sam is 23, it's not like he's an old dog that you have to teach new tricks. So no, I don't think it would be bizzare for a team to break the trend because there is no trend for this type of situation. Not all QBs drafted to bad teams are created equal so there's not really an apples to apples comparison here unless I'm missing someone.
I’ve never seen such a big divide on people I would consider sharp NFL insiders and our own fanbase’s opinion on a player Are we all wrong on Sam? If other teams truly believe he’s full of potential to be fixed, then why wouldn’t our new coaching staff feel the same way also? That would really be the best case scenario but it’s definitely risky....Then again so is rolling with a rookie QB. Watson is the best case scenario but it’s tough gutting your draft picks for him unless Sam is considered a late 1 by the Texans
I agree with BroadwaySam more so because it's not a stretch that all those guys are gone by the saints pick. I can see 5 QBs going in the 1st round, that leaves a bunch of huge question marks in the draft. At that point Sam is probably a better option than the rest. His situation is a little unprecedented so yeah, I could see him breaking the trend.
Right, I totally forgot to mention this part in my post. Unless they have Trask and Jones rated neck and neck or they really think highly of Kellen Mond (I hope not) then they'd be taking a huge gamble by waiting til the mid to late 20s.
What made Sam good and such a good prospect was his ability to improvise, pocket presence and ability to extend plays. Since he got brutalized in the NE game and to a lesser extent in the Jax game the week after he has not been the same. He no longer plays on instinct but by fear. His feet shuffle in the pocket and he does not set. He either rushes throws or holds it too long. He no longer plays by instinct. Playing in fear destroys his mechanics. He has not recovered from the beating Gase needlessly inflicted this upon him by running 5 man wide with no protection against free rushers until Sam finally told him no this is not working. I don't know if he ever will recover his confidence again. I think it us unlikely. Certainly the Shanny power running, play action, with rollouts and lots of motion suits Sam well. Under Gass the Jets almost never used motion or play action. This should help Sam read the defense faster, get the ball out faster, use his athletic gifts and regain some confidence. I really think Sam needs to sit for a year or two and regroup mentally but the Shanny system is really good for him even if I think we are better off with Wilson.
Not really. Sam is horrendous off the play fake; actually he's one of the worst in the league, if the not the worst in the league off the play fake.
They’ll have to pony up for Jameis though since he’s a free agent and probably will get offered low level starter money from someone. I’m also not even sure the Saints would want Darnold, this is all hypothetical.
No I'm really not. Because he's not the first young quarterback that went to a bad franchise that set them up to fail. There would historically be a much bigger market for similar players if the league subscribed to the "they still have potential let's go all in on them," narrative. Why wasn't there some sort of big market for Mitchell Trubisky last year? Why wasn't there any market at all for EJ Manuel, Brady Quinn, Christian Ponder, Brandon Weeden, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Freeman, Matt Leinart, etc.?
When I am hearing these guys "in the know" saying Watson is a "slight upgrade" over Sam and many other ridiculous things, I actually think mist people on this board may be more informed and simply speaking more logical when it comes to opinion and not actual facts that these guys get. So, We will have to agree to disagree on that one, and let's see who is right if the trade does eventually happen. I would love to be wrong here and end up with first round pick for Sam, but not holding my breath. Maybe if some team is not able to get a free agent QB, then not able to get Lance/Jones/Trask, there is a chance where we will get the highest offer we can, but I doubt at the end of of the day we will end up with 1st and even 2nd would be a really great trade IMO. 3d to me is more realistic, but we will see. Just looking at this, Sam's option is definitely not getting picked up, so he a FA next season. Unless he actually starts and plays like FQB next year and teams are willing to franchise tag him for 25 mil, he can leave next year. That is a big mountain to climb from where he is right now. Would people be willing to offer first rounder for this, even second, knowing this could very well be a one year rental. I have my doubts. End of second/ at best, or more likely third/forth - possible. Even if we say keep Sam and have him start while Zach Wilson learns. We might be in this situation as well, where even if he improves, he does not play well enough for 25 mil tag, so we may end up losing him as FA.
Haha, it just felt right to say there is nothing more poor than an Adam Gase offense. Hey, I have made poorer mistakes in my life! It was exhausting defending Sam yesterday. The anti-Sammers do not let up!
trubisky is on a good team though. he came in with a top defense and they've added a lot of talent on offense. 2 good RBs and they signed allen robinson for him.
I think the better question is how come none of those guys you named had a trade market whatsoever yet it’s pretty widely assumed that there is at least a handful of teams interested in Sam? And for the price of a day two pick. We can go around around in circles but none of those guys you mentioned were ever as talented as Sam is. Youll disagree, then I will disagree, and then we will keep doing it over and over and over. I’d much rather just wait to see how the whole thing plays out. And Sam would give his left nut to be surrounded by the talent on both sides of the ball that Mitch has had since coming into the league.
Trades Kirk Cousins Carson Wentz Teddy Bridgewater Gardner Minshew Jimmy Garoppolo Jacoby Brissett Free agency Jameis Winston Ryan Fitzpatrick Dak Prescott (unlikely but it's on the table with no deal at the moment) Andy Dalton Mitchell Trubisky (sucks and probably falls below Sam but I'll toss him in there) Plus five potential first round draft selections at quarterback. As many as ten teams inquired about Stafford. Six or so offers were below a first round pick. But Darnold has first round value because potential?
They had the 27th ranked running game last year and the 25th ranked running game this year (below the Jets amazingly enough). Offensive line was middle of the pack in terms of sacks allowed and yes they had Robinson which automatically makes their surrounding cast better. I'm not advocating for Mitchell Trubisky, but it's not like he is working with a top tier offensive cast either. And he sucks but he's been better then Darnold has. And if the Bears don't have a loser kicking the ball they win a playoff game in which Trubisky played well in and out dueled Foles pretty considerably in with no turnovers.
I took a break yesterday tbh it can be a bit much in the off season, some good rows develop in this period and I am trying my hardest not to be one this time, okay, there is a first time for everything
Look at Sam like this. Say Trevor Lawrence goes to a TERRIBLE Jags team with horrible coaching, worst in class o-line that gets him killed every other play, a TE that can't catch, and WRs no one ever heard of that can't get open. Fast forward 3 seasons and Trevor looks terrible (on that Jags team). Would you trade a low 1st to give him a go with our team? Of course you would. That's what other teams are thinking when they see Sam on the Jets. Sam was highly touted as a talented #1 overall pick for MONTHS. The NFL world loved him. His pro-day had like 90 teams and coaching staffs there to watch him. But then the Jets happened. I get that Sam was never as good as Trevor in college, but in 2018 there was Sam Darnold and everyone else.
This list seems counterintuitive to your argument. It shows Sam will be worth a 1st round pick, as those are not great options to have. The only QB on that list I would put ahead of Sam is Dak, and he is much more expensive and likely going back to the Cowboys. Sam did beat him head-to-head in 2019 too. The true options out there are Watson, Lawrence (To Jags), Fields, Wilson, Lance, Jones. 6 options. Then Darnold, then some of those Free Agent QB's you listed. Sam is probably ranked higher than some of the rookie QB's to many teams too. I don't know why that is so hard for some of you to believe.
