If we could get a first rounder for Darnold, I would trade him in a heartbeat. But I really doubt that, I would be happy to get a second for him at the moment. I think he really needs a year as a backup under good coaching to work and correct his flaws and no team is going to give first rounder for a backup. Anyhow, he needs a fresh start somewhere else.
I'd take Darnold over Goff. (Not just because of the head-to-head match-up) Goff had everything and couldn't get it done. Darnold had nothing and played bad. Same with Trubisky. Not really comparable. The Bears were great and Mitch held them back, as did Goff. I get fans think Sam held the Jets back, but it is not the same. I get you guys have a low perception of Darnold and his talent, but let's just say I disagree. I put the Steelers on there because I like the option of trading for Sam, letting him sit behind Ben for 2021,and then letting him take over in 2022. I also think Sam could run Shanahan's offense well. That is why I am not 100% sure he won't return to the Jets in 2021. 99% sure though.
Not to mention that the players that routinely make big plays by throwing on the move are the ones that break the pocket themselves and not ones that have designed rollouts called for them every play like some people think should happen. Josh Allen, old school Aaron Rodgers (a bit less mobile as he's gotten older), Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, and Russell Wilson are all among the best throwers on the move. There's a reason they're among the top passers in the league and don't have designed rollouts or bootlegs called for them every other play like Kirk Cousins and Baker Mayfield and Goff do.
This may surprise you, but I'd take Darnold over Goff as well. I never liked Goff. He has surprised me and done better than I thought he ever would, but I agree that Sam is more talented, at least physically. I agree that Sam and the Jets' situation is not the same as Goff's and the Rams or Trubisky's and the Bears I don't have a low perception of Darnold's physical talent. It's his mental ability about which I have extreme doubts. The only thing we really disagree on is whether Sam could run Shanahan's offense well. I don't think he can at all. Even if he only has to see part of the field instead of the whole field, there's still his bad footwork, bad decision making, his problems with accuracy and TOs. If he is working hard to fix his footwork (a big if), then his accuracy could improve, but that wouldn't necessarily help him on the mental parts of the game, and he is bad on play action and is bad in a clean pocket. Unless LaFleur has him roll out 85%-95% of the time and doesn't care about TOs, I don't see him being effective in 2021. I agree with you that if the Steelers plan to trade for Sam, commit to him and sign him to an extension, then let him sit behind Ben for a year, that the Steelers should still be on the list. I'd be shocked if they did that, but that could work for them.
I think Sam looked pretty good in 2018 and 2019. Last year, the Jets looked lost without Sam, and pretty solid with him despite a weak roster. He went (7-6), which isn't great, but pretty good with Gase as his Head Coach. I just think people make too much of the 2020 season with Sam. It is ridiculous to me. It was a nightmare. A completely new offensive line. No time to gel. No pre-season. Injured WR's. Terrible Head Coach. Thrown right in on the road against a team who eventually went to the AFC Championship Game. Then the defending NFC Champs. Then a tough Colts team on the road. Then gets his shoulder crushed on Thursday Night Football. The season is over there at (0-4) but it just kept getting worse. Comes back, who does he play? The 2 AFC Championship Game teams with the Bills and then the Chiefs. Injured AGAIN. Back for the final 6 games, where he looked bad against the Dolphins, Seahawks and Patriots, but solid against the Raiders, Rams and Browns. So you evaluate that and are just done with the 23 year old #3 overall pick? Unwise decision.
any pick the jets may receive for SD will be garnished with on the field incentives - honestly those details will be more important than the agreed upon initial pick.
Most of the excuses listed for Sam apply to many other QB's as well. Those things balance out over the course of a whole season. Plenty of other QB's played far better than Sam in similarly poor situations. You can't average less than 1 TD per game, more INT's than TD"s and less than 200 yards per game in your third season and expect to be given another chance. Flacco clearly outperforming Sam when he played should tell us all we need to know about Sam. Flacco is an old, mediocre QB coming off neck surgery and he was clearly better than Sam in the exact same situation.
Flacco wasn't better. He was (0-4) and can throw a better deep ball to get Perriman involved. That was the only difference to me. What QB's were in similarly poor situations? There was nothing more poor than an Adam Gase-run offense. You are missing the point though. It is not about Sam with the Jets. It is about Sam overall. I agree, that the team most likely has to move on. I am just showing you what another team could see and justify why Sam could be a success with them. You only get so many years to succeed in the league. I don't think Douglas can justify going with Sam, but only because he has plenty of good options right now. If he did not, keeping Sam would make more sense to me. Like I said, the (2-14) season was a NIGHTMARE. I think the team (and Sam) need a fresh start. I also think Sam can succeed elsewhere though and other teams will see his play in 2018 and 2019, plus his terrible luck in 2020, and come to the same conclusion.
Good thing the Texans aren't trading Watson. Dude just signed a huge contract and wants out. Fast forward 3 years from now and he'll do the same thing to the Jets. Look elsewhere and stay away from Watson.
I don't know how you can say Flacco wasn't better. Sam had a better completion % but Flacco had a higher Y/A and had a 2:1 TD:INT ratio compared to sam at 1:1.2. I didn't miss the point at all. You didn't say anything about how other teams view Sam in your original post. You're shifting the goalposts now because I actually provided evidence for why Sam shouldn't be given another chance with us.
The point of this thread is teams have called about Sam. Many posters think Sam isn't worth much. I disagree and think he is worth a 1st or 2nd rounder at worst. I was just pointing how how that is. And in a normal situation, Sam should be given another chance with the Jets. The problem is, the coaching has changed, and 2020 was so bad that it likely won't happen. You didn't provide any evidence besides stats that are irrelevant to me as I equate them to the coaching and the situation. I explained why it was a nightmare season for Darnold. I have 2018, 2019 and USC tape to go by if I am a team evaluating Sam, and that includes Douglas and Saleh. That is why I say if they believe in him and want to give him another chance, I would support it.
How's this for another stat: Sam is one of the worst 5 QB's EVER in terms of total passing value added over his first three years. Is that enough to change your mind or should we blame Gase for that too? Sam was also last in the NFL in average passer rating from 2018-2020. Enough proof for you or do you want to continue to deny reality and do mental gymnastics to try to justify historically bad performance?
I don't know what that stat is, but no. Again, I am just saying why a team would give Darnold a chance. 2020 went off the rails. It was brutal. Sam deserves some of the blame for it too. You brought up Flacco looking good against the Patriots and the Chargers. I know what you mean, I just think it is more complicated than that. Sam was lost and there was no one there to help him. Not a QB Coach. Not an OC. Not a Head Coach. I think if he does get the right help, he could succeed in the NFL. It is a risk though. I thought he showed poise and ability with the wins over the Rams and Browns. Then he crashed it all with a poor 2nd half performance in New England, which brought up all the questions again. Too inconsistent and some truly bad throws, in my opinion. He has shown enough to make me think he can win though. The NFL is a results business, and the results have not been good lately for Sam, but it is also a team sport.
Is 3 years not enough evidence to show he's bad when he's been among the worst ever over those 3 years? Burrow had a historically bad offensive line this year and he was lighting it up. Do I need to track down the stat about % chance of success for QB's who start their career like Darnold? It concluded there's a 5-10% chance that a QB who starts his career like Darnold will ever become average. Forget "good". I'm not trying to be harsh but I know for a fact that myself and others have presented these exact arguments here before, often multiple times. It gets extremely frustrating addressing the same erroneous views about Darnold over and over and over. Let the evidence guide your opinions. I don't understand this refusal to change your mind when the evidence against your views is overwhelming.
You guys are fucking nuts. The only justification for wanting Darnold over Goff is because you do not want Goff's contract to handcuff the cap. Any other argument is asinine if it's based on player performance or skill set.
Yeah, I agree. It is tough to argue for Darnold, with all negatives surrounding him especially last year. My mind doesn't need to be changed though. I am on record saying it is best to move on from Sam in 2021, unless Saleh and Douglas really believe in him (Which I don't think they do). I was just trying to point out how Sam has value and how other teams may view him. And how his future could still be bright. I believe all that is possible. It's also possible he continues to look bad, and is out of the league in a couple seasons. We just don't know. Well, you seem to know. Hey! That is not nice.
I hope you are right because then the Jets would get a better draft pick for Darnold. Idk why any Jets fan would find fault in that idea
