To add to this - Sam finished the year with the 2nd most dropped INT's of any QB. With normal variance he probably would've had 13-14 interceptions this year.
I couldnt disagree more.Theres a QB we love at 2 or any spot you take him.Fine.But it ends there.We said this same line in 18 about how there might not be another QB in awhile & how many QBs have ascended to 1st round status in every class since?? The QB supply has changed starting at the HS level,into college & ultimately leading to more NFL QB prospects. More & more teams at every level are moving to pass oriented attacks & schemes.Positional coaching & development has improved immensely. Superior Athletes w raw arm talent & intangibles are getting groomed into dual threats & flourishing at the college level.More & more NFL coaches are utilizing colllege concepts to provide these new era QBs a platform. How many college QBs actually played this covid season?How many more will be playing HOPEFULLY IN 2021? How do we have any idea how many QBs returning to action will or wont ascend to 1st round calibur prospects?? There is absolutely zero need to force a QB at 2.None. Teams w complete rosters have found ways to get their franchise QBs w.o reaching w a #2 pick & simply waiting for their guy to pounce. When a team is at where the Jets are at NOTHING should be forcing a team’s hand except improving the roster top to bottom.
so, are you saying either you get a QB at #2 or we stand pat? For me, SOMETHING must be done about QB THIS OFFSEASON. We dont HAVE To use the #2. Many ways to skin a cat and all.
Regarding 2018 - trading up to get a QB was the right move, we just happened to pick the worst one (other than Rosen) of the bunch because we had a historically bad GM making the selection. The Bills and Allen are deep in a playoff run and the Browns with Baker were a pretty good team this year and made a playoff appearance. You're using the Chiefs and Mahomes as an example of what the best thing to do is. That's faulty logic. I can't stress how rare it is to get a QB as good as Mahomes with the 10th overall pick. It almost never happens and when it does it's because he was taken by a great franchise who is better at spotting talent than most. Mahomes is far from a normal result and you cannot use outlier events to shape our actions moving forward. We have a pretty good idea that either Howell or Ratler will be the top QB prospect next year. Neither has historically been rated as high as Fields and it's unlikely they'll do anything to change that next year. I will reiterate that Fields goes #1 in most drafts and we shouldn't let the presence of a generational guy like Lawrence lead us to believe that Fields is not a good prospect. He's a very good prospect. Your argument is basically that two things will happen simultaneously over the next couple years: 1. The QB prospects will be as highly rated (unlikely) 2. We'll have another top 5 pick (unlikely as well) The odds of two unlikely events happening concurrently is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY. We have been generally a bad team for multiple decades and we haven't picked as high as #2 overall in 24 years.
HS teams across the country are putting their best athletes at QB and are teaching them how to throw rather than sticking them at RB or WR. It's pretty awesome to see.
1.Id never hold anything to the impossible standard of Mahomes despite the fact most on this site didnt think he was even a top 20 pick.To claim its impossible to replicate the chiefs STRATEGY is wrong. landing a franchise QB is perfectly achievable w.o reaching on a player top 5 or before the franchise is ready to support a QB. 2.Again..we have no idea what the QB landscape will be for 2021/22.Nobody thought Baker Mayfield was an elite prospect in 17,nobody thought Jared Love was a 1st rounder in 18 & nobody thought Zach Wilson was a 1st round prospect in 19. Most c.o 22 QBs havent played in a yr & half.we have no idea how theyve developed since then. 3. Not even close to everyone is enamored w the QBs in this class.Id use the term “Top talent” carefully. If we dont love a player why in the wirkd wpuld we select them at 2 & set ourselves back even further??
Im saying ideally like all impact positions on roster wed like to address them this yr..none more prevelant than QB.But if the options arent great or it doesnt work out it isnt the end of the line. We arent in a position to put all our eggs in one basket. That #2 pick signifies a new era.Why start on a sour note cause we supposedly will never be able to draft a good QB again??
1. Nobody is arguing that it's impossible to get a franchise QB outside of a top 5 pick. The numbers say doing so is extremely unlikely, though. Are we going to assume we're smarter than everyone else or even most other teams? What, in our history, would lead us to believe that? 1b. I don't disagree that more top QB prospects are coming about, my point is that Fields is one such guy and we have him staring us in the face. Let's not overthink this. 2. Of course we don't know, but we can reasonably predict given how Fields and Howell/Rattler have performed thus far in their careers. We know for a fact that Fields was more highly rated than either of them coming out of HS and has performed better than either of them in college so far. We need to think in terms of probabilities instead of absolutes. Nothing is for sure, none of us have a crystal ball. We must take the actions with the highest probabilities of success, though.
this sounds odd to me... i mean, you obvioulsy LOVE the player if you are selcting tthem at #2, no?? i'd be surprised if any of those top the GMs say " I really am not sure at all, but , ahh, fuck it, we'll take him" so, i guess i am saying its OBVIOUS you dont snag a QB @ #2 unless you love him.
Most of this we agree on. But not to put words in your mouth but it seems like you just have conviction for Fields.And while im not there w that thinking i can respect it. Where i take issue is draft recency bias talk where we’re never gonna see another QB,DE or whatever position ever again. Have to remain disciplined & headstrong w our approach & maintain a long term view.
Its being said in response to this idea that we absolutely have to take a QB.W where we are at as a team we dont HAVE to do anything except start improving the roster by leaps & bounds regardless of position
you are completely missing the point. doesn't matter what we spent for darnold. doesn't matter that he hasn't panned out. The past is the past and nothing can change it and it's irrelevant for making a plan going forward. The point is simple watson is living proof that having a FQB isn't going to fix a team. houston got worse and worse with watson at QB due to a poor roster around him and poor coaching. Sam thing we did with sam. would you want to take a QB 2nd overall and do exactly what we did to sam and have him be a bust so 3 years from now you can repeat your statement about how we need a QB?
ok. thanks for the clarification. Am unsure how many people are actually saying we needa qb @ #2, seems more like DO SOMETHING ABOUT QB position NOW. SOMETHING. And yes, we got holes.
fixing the QB does not PREVENT you from having good coaching and getting better all around. No, one player wont fix everything. But we have many picks and we a shitton of $$ for FAs on top and a new HC. everyone here knows that we need across the board improvement. i cannot recall a single posit that refuses to acknowledge that. watching a team with a bad QB is unwatchable. (whcih is why i only watched RZ and natonal games and highlights) No one said. "Get a QB and keep the team as is."
That is precisely the point. We don't know what it will look like (right now does not look great, but maybe it will change) and whether we will even be able to get the prospects that will emerge. What we do know is that THIS YEAR the QB market is booming according to pretty much every analyst, with 5-6 first round talent. AND we have a pick to be able to get who we think is the best one, aside from Trevor. I just don't believe that among Fields, Wilson, Lance, and Jones, all of whom projected first round, and most top 10-15, there is not one guy we REALLY like. To forego that, and go into next year not knowing if QB class next year will produce a QB, and then not knowing whether we can even be in position to get one is simply irresponsible.
Yeah. For the record I'm not a Fields at #2 or bust guy. That's probably my ideal course of action, but I'm perfectly fine with trading back and still taking a QB in the first round. I'm out on any plan that doesn't include a QB in the first round though. The consensus seems to be that this QB class is quite strong, I think it would be foolish to forgo taking one this year.
It depends what we have to give up. I'm not against watson at all. i'm pointing out how people here overvalue the QB position. Watson hasn't won anything yet despite how talented he is. the jets haven't won shit in a decade. combining the 2 is hardly a guarantee to change that. With that said, and I don't remember if you were around here at the time but 3 yards ago this board had a very similar discussion. It was regarding kirk cousins. I wanted to sign him. people here were like fuck that he sucks he isn't worth 30 million a year. now we want to pay watson 40 mil a year plus give up a bunch of assets. Cousins over these past 3 years is averaging over 4k yards a season, 70% completions and 30TDs and 100+ QBR and less then 10 INTs a season. we also would have had the 6th overall pick and 3 extra 2nd rounders. likely wouldn't have signed mosley or bell. could have drafted 4 good players with those picks. likelt wouldn't have signed bell if we didn't need a QB guru on a young QB. mind you would we still be bad? possibly but it's just funny how everyone knows the right way but always inconsistent It sounds to me you are just sick of seeing ad QBs and i get it. i've been a jet fan my whole life and pushing 40. but just because something exciting is there doesn't mean it's a good team. the lions have had a top QB for a decade and still suck
I know Watson discussion is fun, but much larger probability is that we will pick a QB in the draft. Hence I present the below for analysis by true experts (i.e. all posters on this board). Every play by Zack Wilson this year: Every play by Justin Fields this year: Every play by Trey Lance this year (one game):
