See my edited post. I was going on memory of how Sam looks now. I looked at that highlights video of Sam after I replied to you, and backed off my comments. I had forgotten how confident, strong and accurate Sam was.
I like you as a poster and have no desire to get in an argument with you either, but we're going to have to mostly agree to disagree on this. Yes, overall, Clemson has much better talent than BYU, but they are not loaded at every position. They are relative to BYU and many other schools, but not in relation to NFL level talent. A lot of Clemson's players, if they're drafted at all, are drafted in mid-and lower rounds. If they were loaded at every position, all those players would be drafted in the first 3 rounds. Clemson has had more QBs, WRs, DL, and maybe RBs drafted high than any other position. They've had no OL drafted high that I can remember. Jackson Carman is ranked higher this year than any Clemson OL I can remember. I think Simmons was the first LB they've had that was drafted in the top 10.
Lance is my #2 QB & i like him as a trade down option only. The Year off/Lower level etc doesnt bother me so much.I just think he has great talent & his skillset matches very well w what now works at QB in 2020. He just needs time to expand his game.They had10 route combos/passing plays at most for him at NDSU
That's the thing about Wilson, it's hard to get a good read on processing speed when you play shit competition. He did play against two decent defenses. Struggled against Coastal, 15th ranked defense, where they lost the game. 19 of 30 for 240y, 1TD, 1INT, 55y rushing. Worth noting he almost completed 91 yard drive at the end of the game to win it, but came up one yard shot as he completed 17 yard pass, needing 18 as time expired. Did well against San Diego's 12th ranked D: 25 of 34 for 310y, 3TD, 0 INT, -4y rushing. Other defenses he played against are ranked: 71, 43, 30, 42, 88, 116, 37, 52, Div II UNA Team - no ranking, 92. Fields only had 6 games this year, against 66, 56, 81, 18, 100, 5 defenses. Struggled against both Indiana (#18) and Northwestern (#5), though won both games. Indiana, 18th ranked defense: 19 of 30 for 300y, 2TD, 3INT, 78y rushing, 1TD. Northwestern 5th ranked D: 12 of 27 for 114y, 0TD, 2INT, 35y rushing. Last year Fields has a lot more impressive data though, whereas Wilson sucked last year. If Fields can have a good game against Clemson, I think this will solidify his #2 status, even if they end up losing.
Yeah, right now looks like he is back from that injury 100%, but the concern is what if it happens again? He also did not take too many hits this year, and is not the biggest guy out there, which further exacerbates injury concern, whether he will hold up, given already a previous issue with labrum on throwing arm. Just a red flag worth noting, which is significant IMO. Fields right now checks more boxes than Zach, and I want him to do well in play-offs, and also at combine and workouts with the Jets, so that the #2 becomes somewhat obvious, like it was a few weeks ago before Fields faced Indiana. However, if he struggles again that would make it 3 out of 3 struggles against top 20 defenses he faced, which is also a red flag.
I totally agree with you--I have been a big Darnold critic and I am still livid about what this team managed to do. I'm not making an argument that this should be about supporting Darnold. At some point we replace Sam, no doubt. What I am saying is because of what we managed to do, barring a miracle happening in Jacksonville in the next two games--we need to go a different direction completely. Unless management is sold out 100% that Zach Wilson is a future blue chip QB, you can't afford to draft to replace Darnold just for the sake of replacing him. We are better off putting off QB and getting elite athletes in here at other positions. The elites this year IMO are: Penei Sewell (considered the next Walters / Pace) T Jamar Chase WR Devonta Smith WR Kyle Pitts TE Najee Harris RB Trevor Lawrence (hate to even type his name these days haha) Now, I'm not saying these players should all go top 5, I wouldn't consider RB a position to take until late 1st round--but what I am saying is these players are considered amongst almost everybody on the planet that they will be highly effective right away and have super high floors. This team can't afford risky picks--we have too many needs and depth issues. We need safe starters to fill out the roster and get this team playing competitive football again. If JD picks Wilson #2 I will be excited because I do think JD is the right GM and so far his picks have been pretty good. I'll trust his judgement that Wilson is the right guy. But if JD considers this a gamble--you don't take Wilson. You either take Sewell or trade down for a haul and take one of the WRs perhaps. You can make a case for Surtain Jr...I'm not a Micah Parsons fan as some have mentioned.
I thought about that as well, but at the end of the day, I just don't see too many teams winning consistently without a great QB even with other talent. Even without TL, we still have a top draft pick, and there are a couple of really good prospects there in Wilson and Fields. I feel like we will end up choosing one of them if TL is out of reach. Both will likely be gone in top 10, much like Mayfield, Sam, and Allen were. And we need a QB as much as anyone. We will continue to struggle year after year without a great QB. The best time to get it is when you are at the bottom, since you have a higher draft pick. Yes, even without a guy like Lawrence available. We (or hopefully Jags) will have a choice of Fields and Wilson, other teams won't. I know we tried this before with Sanchez and Sam, and it didn't work, but I am afraid we need to keep trying until we finally get one. Rebuilds without a good QB usually fail. Sam is simply not the answer as a starter unless we want to tank again.
Is he one of those LDS weirdos? We don't need a QB that gets busted for beating one of his wives with a rubber tube for trying to escape the compound.
A good scouting department and front office doesn't make assumptions, whether or not we have the first pick...I hope our front office would put all these kids through there standard process and stay true to their board after evaluation. I bet most of us would be surprised what the boards look like after all the games, interviews and testing has been done.
While doing some research for a response I made in the "So where do we go from here?" thread in the Draft forum, I came across stats and info about Steve Young that I think are certainly something to think about when talking about Darnold. Young was drafted by the LA Express in the USFL in 1984. After the league folded in 1986 a supplemental draft was held by the NFL and Young was taken 1st in that draft by Tampa Bay. He played for the Bucs for 2 years, playing in 19 games, with a record of 3-16, throwing 21 INTs and 11 TDs! The Bucs traded him to the 49'ers in 1987 and Bill Walsh the SF coach thought Young's problems were mainly due to the terrible talent and coaching in TB, and he made him Montana's backup. After 3 years as backup, Montana got injured and Young got to start in 1991 and went on to win the top QB ranking that year, and the next two years, and then again in 95 and 96. So basically, a guy who was drafted in 1984, and after failing in in his first two years in the actual NFL, and being traded to become Joe Montana's backup for 3 years, he finally succeeds and becomes one of the best QBs ever. I'm not saying Darnold is as good as Young, or ever will be, but there is something to be said for putting a QB in the right situation and having some patience. Also, if the Jets were to keep Sam it would require that they get competent coaching and greatly improve the talent level around him. But there IS a precedent for a "trash QB" ultimately succeeding.
It's definitely a concern, especially with his aggressiveness when running the ball. I pointed this out earlier in another thread, but he absolutely has to forget hurdling would-be tacklers or throwing a shoulder into them/diving into them. When he runs in the NFL he has to run OOB or slide. Period. I disagree that Fields checks more boxes that Wilson. I can't even begin to fathom how you came to that conclusion. Fields has problems seeing the field, reading Ds, decision making, and going through his progressions. He tends to lock onto one receiver or run. Wilson is positive in all those key areas. The only thing that Fields has going for him imo is that he is bigger, faster, may have a stronger arm (albeit less acurate) and has played against tougher competition.
Thank for the write up...and you're so right. Sam is not 'ruined'. Sam is not a 'bust'. Sam is an extremely talented college QB (thought to be #1 overall) but who needed a decent team, not the Jets with the worse o-line in football 2 years in a row (his first 2 years) and his top WR a skinny undrafted walk-on with good hands. Not the jets with Todd Bowles, a defensive HC, who didn't know ANYTHING about developing a QB. Or a GM good enough to draft him but bad enough to NOT draft ANY weapons for him (TE Herndon in round 4 I guess). Compare what the Jets did to Sam with how the Bills totally supported Josh Allen, a far 'lesser' college QB. Bills spent big on the oline and traded THREE high draft pics for Stehpon Diggs, who as of this post is the NFL's top WR. Jets were having none of that. I feel bad to think of what Sam 'could have been' right here in the swamp. I know the JohnsonTwins THOUGHT they were getting an offensive minded HC (finally) and QB whisperer with the approval of Paten Manning, but even that effort was screwed up. I think it's a long shot that Joe Douglas keeps Sam (contract, Mac's guy), but if we end up 'stuck' with Sam, there's still time to give him what he needs to be a top 5-10 QB in the league. Heck, Trevor Lawrence and Sam are nearly the same age!
Sewell and Becton are both great left tackles though. Would it really make sense to move one of them to right tackle? I am not sure.
It's funny you mention this because when I read about Wilson, people either think he has a laser cannon arm or a weak arm. There's no in between. It makes me wonder what people watch for when analyzing arm strength in a QB? How far they can throw? Velocity? How the ball drives through the air? It seems a bit intangible and hard to quantify.
