That's not what I said. I said all fans have the hopes for their number 1 pick that you have for Lawrence. As a Jet fan for over 50 years, I just think we are setting ourselves up for yet another big fall Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
You were still making a comparison between them simply on the fact that they were #1 picks, which is a meritless comparison as I addressed.
Something we are already well conditioned for but we have to keep trying, right? Winning one game to take away some lame duck title and missing out on Lawrence will certainly be the most SOJ disappointment in the last 50 years.
I agree totally. There's no real stigma with having the #1 pick. It means you're a bad team and someone has it every year. Teams have rebounded fairly quickly from the #1 pick. If you lose every game however it means you are a special kind of bad and there's really something deeply and fundamentally wrong with the way your team is run. No one yet has rebounded from a no win season to be successful within a generation. It may just be one game and many will argue that it is not really that much difference, but its what that one game (or lack of it) signifies that is big issue for me.
Hardly a big pool for comparisons and analysis in trend spotting though, that is the problem. 2 teams in the 16 game season, 1 strike shortened season and then Tampa who went 0-26 in two seasons at the start of their franchise history. So out of the two 16 game season 0 win teams, the Lions haven't done much but they also had 9 losing seasons running up to the 0for, 2 seasons later they got beat in the playoffs after a 10-6 season, then twice more in the next 5 seasons. It could have been a lot better but conversely a lot worse also. The Browns then, in 17 seasons since there last playoff place they have only had 1 winning season, since the 3,1,0 W seasons they look to have turned a corner after what can only be described as underwhelming seasons with what looked a decent squad of players. So the trouble with using them as an example is they were historically poor in the run up to the 0for season and consequently it is going to be harder to get a big swing around due to this rather than the big fat 0 attached to the team. Now, I know this isn't good news to the Jets who have been historically shit for 10 years bar Bowles blown season but it isn't as bad as the other two teams had been, the Lions had had some small success in the Sanders years. Getting the number one pick isn't enough on its own to turn us around but with the number 1 pick a GM that looks like he knows what he is about and hopefully a bloody good HC and a team of coaches that are all on the same page and are able to move us forward, through drafting and free agency and also without booming and busting inside 5 years. 10 teams have finished the seasons 1-15 the Jets being one of them and then we got Parcells an era that could have been a lot better ultimately. 1980 New Orleans Saints Week 15 at New York Jets 21–20 1989 Dallas Cowboys Week 9 at Washington Redskins 13–3 1990 New England Patriots Week 2 at Indianapolis Colts 16–14 1991 Indianapolis Colts Week 11 at New York Jets 28–27 1996 New York Jets Week 9 at Arizona Cardinals 31–21 2000 San Diego Chargers Week 13 vs Kansas City Chiefs 17–16 2001 Carolina Panthers Week 1 at Minnesota Vikings 24–13 2007 Miami Dolphins Week 15 vs Baltimore Ravens 22–16 (OT) 2009 St. Louis Rams Week 8 at Detroit Lions 17–10 2016 Cleveland Browns Week 16 vs San Diego Chargers 20-17 Worryingly the amount of them that won dead games at the end of the season. Ah well, fingers crossed eh.
I want the #1 pick even if it means going 0-16. I do not want the Jets to go 0-16 if they can avoid it and still get the #1 pick. I get that a lot of people feel that Gase/the Johnsons/Douglas deserve an 0-16 season. That may be the case, but we don’t. It’s a club that I’d prefer my team not join if it doesn’t have too. The Jets are already mocked as one of the worst franchises in the NFL. No need to pile on if it can be avoided. It’s true that if the Jets win a Super Bowl during “the Lawrence Era”, 0-16 would become the beginning of the story, and we’d hear that story every year in part because of the ineptitude of the team itself, but mostly because it was the catalyst that changed the fortunes of an awful franchise. If Lawrence is a bust it’ll mean we endured 0-16 for a bust.
Doesn't bother me in the least. The Jets are known for being one of the worst franchises in sports, so why not do something to really lay claim to that throne? Mainly, it bother me because it's the only avenue that we have to get the #1 overall pick and the generational QB-prospect that can be the beginning of the turnaround. If there were a bunch of JAG-types at QB in the draft, then I'd probably be bothered by going 0-16, but with a talent like Lawrence sitting there, I don't care what we have to do to get to the #1 pick, we have to get there.
0-16 would really bother me any other year. This year it’s different because there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. We just can’t fuck it up and go through this season and not come away with Sunshine
Yes my comparison is not based upon merit, but upon the fact that fans tend to have unrealistic expectations for any QBs drafted #1 overall. If you're saying that Lawrence is in the class of Manning or Elway, and we'll be in numerous SBs in short order, I say, as a lifetime Jets fan, pump the brakes on that.
It bothers me because I would feel bad for the players and coaches and everyone on the team who worked hard.
I don't think the issue is going 0-16, per se, it's what leads up to paving the way to a winless record, which of course indicates a deep level of dysfunction that isn't going to be suddenly fixed overnight. It's not like 0-16 places some magical curse on a franchise. A team can build up from 0-16 just as easily (or difficultly) as 1-15 or 2-14, assuming they've done a major remake of their decision makers and how decisions are made. If that doesn't happen, it's because of ignorant ownership, not because of the "curse" of 0-16. That said, you have to begin to reverse the ineptitude at some point, and that path is made much easier having the #1 pick in every round. If we have to go 0-16 to do that, I have no problem with that. As I said in another post, I actually think going 3-13, 4-12, 5-11 is worse because it takes you out of the prime draft spots, while not proving to anyone that you're a good team.
The post I quoted was saying 1/15 is essentially a better start off point than 0/16 historically but all I was trying to convey was there wasn't a lot of hard data on that due to only really 2 teams going 0/16. For example, if we went 0/16 and then won the bowl it would smash those current stats into pieces and it could be said go 0/16 and you have a one third of a chance at the bowl the next year lol Stats like that are obviously pointless though And yes it is all on who you bring in to manage and run the team, hopefully, we have JD as one part and he is then allowed to get the right man after Gase.
That's just sheer pessimism and negativity. I can understand it being a long time Jets fan, but imo you have to look at the situations and understand why they went winless and why it took them a long time to get better, then compare that with the Jets' situation. I don't have the time or energy to look up all the specific details and the whys and wherefores, but will give some info below. To put it in an abbreviated fashion, none of those 3 teams had a GM like Douglas who worked and learned under one of the all-time great GMs for a long time, and who is so respected around the NFL. Their drafting was awful. They weren't able to parlay that losing record into drafting a generational QB as the Jets will be able to do, and I don't think they had ascendant young players like Becton, Q. Williams, Mims, and Mann on their rosters. I believe the Bucs and Lions were older, veteran teams mostly, but could be mistaken. The Lions' GM who built that team was Matt Millen who rivals Idzik and Mac for worst GM in NFL history (he was fired 4 games into the season), and the Lions' franchise has been even more dysfunctional and incompetent than the Jets. If you want more info, look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Detroit_Lions_season The Bucs were an expansion team, the expansion draft was made up of mostly aging veterans, and whereas John McKay was a great coach at USC, he was awful in the NFL. For some reason (maybe just the era) there was a lack of medical info available on players in the expansion draft, and the Bucs wound up with 17 players on IR. HOF LeRoy Selmon was a rookie, but was injured a lot. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers_season#:~:text=The 1976 Tampa Bay Buccaneers,under head coach John McKay. It's pretty common knowledge how dysfunctional the Browns have been since Jimmy Haslam bought them in 2012. There has been little or no stability and they have changed GMs and HCs more often than the Jets. Phil Savage was the GM from 2004-2008 and his teams lost 40 games while winning only 24. He was replaced by George Kokinis in 2009 and he only lasted one season. Tom Heckert replaced Kokinis, lasted 3 seasons and went 14-34 (2010-2012). Michael Lombardi was the next sacrificial lamb. He lasted one season and the Browns went 4-12. Ray Farmer was GM in 2014-2015 and his teams went 10-22. Sashi Brown was GM in 2016-2017 and is said to have been perhaps the worst GM in NFL history. His teams went 1-31. John Dorsey was hired in December 2017, and in 2018 the Browns went 7-8-1. During that timespan, the HCs were Romeo Crennel (2005-2008), Eric Mangini (2009-2010), Pat Shurmur (2011-2012), Rob Chudzinski (2013), Mike Pettine (2014-2015), Hugh Jackson (2016-2018 until he was fired), and Greg Williams finished out as interim. Freddie Kitchens (2019). They make the Jets look like the picture of stability. It's little wonder that team went 0-16 and they almost did it twice with Mike Pettine as HC and Sashi Brown as GM. They had little or no talent on the field, and even less in the FO or CS. Haslam makes the Johnsons look good by comparison. Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Cleveland_Browns_season , https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/history/head-coaches , and https://www.brownsnation.com/how-many-people-have-been-the-gm-of-the-cleveland-browns/
Spot on. Thanks for bringing some rationality to the discussion. The sheer negativity, cynicism, and irrationality is overwhelming on this site.
Of course they had the same hopes, but that doesn't mean that they had the same reasons to be optimistic. Fans can be blind homers and think their teams are better than they are, and they aren't always known for looking at situations realistically and rationally. Yes, a lot has to fall into place, but the Jets have a lot going for them with players like Becton, Q. Williams, Mims, Mann and a few others, a very promising GM in Douglas who has a great background and resume, lots of draft picks over the next two years with a lot of them in the top 100 picks, and the 2nd most cap space next year. They don't have nearly the mountain to climb or the obstacles to overcome that the Bucs and Browns, and to a lesser extent, the Lions did. There is solid reason for realistic hope. Of course it could all go to shit and not work out. That is the Jets way after all, but I'm a big believe in that one makes one's own luck with preparation, hard work and opportunity. I'm certain that Douglas has put in the hard work and preparation, and we have a great opportunity. The key is for the Johnsons to back off and let Douglas run the team. If they do, then our chances for success are very good, if not great. If the Johnsons meddle or insist on making the HC hire themselves, then all bets are off or if they're dumb enough to retain Gase (I don't think that even they are that dumb), all bets are off.
So what I'm hearing is the Lions, Bucs and Browns suck more than us, so we will be the first team to turn 0-16 into a Super Bowl victory in short order. And that Lawrence is guaranteed to lead the Jets to the SB like Manning and Elway. And Joe Douglas is definitely going to turn the Jets around quickly And everybody knew in 1987 that Vinny Testaverde wasn't going to be good in the NFL. And anyone who doesn't think this way is just being negative. Ok good to know
We will need the 0-16 unfortunately, this Jags team is pathetic. We would definitely beat the Jags if we played them. They are also very injured. They aren't starting Minshew because they know he will win games. The only hope is if Colts win out and can afford to rest starters, which still doesn't mean much because Brisset is a good QB. Perhaps the Colts play that game a bit soft, because ultimately that means bringing TL into your division.
Life as a Jets fan is bad enough with people sucking the fun out of peoples hopes. We are Jets fans we secretly know it is gonna fuck up but let people have a couple of months of hope and joy.. But your last sentence was spot on btw, especially when that is all you are saying, no ifs or buts just fucking flat out failure.
This might actually be the first year that going 0-16 would not bother me. It would be the ultimate mushroom stamp on the forehead of the Johnson brothers that their early failed attempts (Woody's at least) to build a consistent winner has devolved into a decade straight of utter failure. Anyone who could have been fired has been fired, over and over again, and the only constant is ownership. I don't expect anything to change because when you are a billionaire who interited everything you have in life and have not had to put in an honest day of work, ever, you don't have any idea what adversity is except as something that's not fair to you, because you should be able to do and get anything you want without trying. The only reason I see the team being sold is if the Johnsons get bored with their toy.
