In our rush to draft a FQB in 2018 we changed our course in way that would guarantee we failed. There is a lot to unpack here but lets start with the biggest mistake. Trading way to much to move up 3 spaces. To move from the 6th pick to the 3rd pick we traded 3 (high) second round picks - 34, 37,49. Now if we were a complete team ready to draft a FQB that would have been doable. But we were far from complete and in a total rebuild - especially our o-line. Thus we traded 3 huge pieces that could have been used to build around our rookie QB. So we basically started screwing Sam before we even picked him. Even with the picks we had remaining we didn't help him at all, selecting Shepard (DL), Herendon (TE), Nickerson (CB), Futakatsi, (DL), Cannon (RB). This whole draft was basically how not to help a young QB. Trade was unnecessary - focus on Sam too much. As the draft played out Mayfield ended up being the only QB that would have been drafted in the top 5. We could have gotten Sam at 6 and kept those picks. This reflects a lack of due diligence in understanding who would likely take a QB. It also showed that we didn't have any vision for another QB besides Sam if he was taken (and we were left with a choice of Allen, Jackson, or Rosen). Though many celebrated the start of the Sam Darnold era many also understood it was a terrible draft in every other way. In fact, it changed our course drastically. What could have been - best case scenario, Okay our GMs were terrible at rebuilding. Year after year our foundation never improved. We should have known that we weren't ready for a FQB. Here is an alternative history of 2018 with a genuine rebuilding GM and just using who was drafted with the picks we traded. With pick 6 (G) Quinton Nelson. A pro bowl guard. With pick 34 (CB) Rock Ya Sin. Solid CB/Nickle Back With pick 37 (G) Braden Smith. A solid guard, potential future pro bowler. With pick 49 (TE) Dallas Goedert. A guy with 114 catches, over 1200 yards, and 13 TDs. Potential future pro bowler. With three of these four picks alone we get much stronger up front and are much closer to being ready for a FQB. Add Ya Sin to the rest of our draft and we got a decent rebuild starting with the defense as well. This would have been a much more solid team, ready to take the next step, and draft a QB. It would have been a great season and a great place to keep building. But what about at QB you say? We signed Teddy Bridgewater that offseason. But since we had already invested so much into drafting a FQB we traded him. If we would have just waited until we were ready to draft a FQB things would have started falling into place...instead of falling apart.
For a second, I thought DWC was the OP of this thread. There is something to be said about not trading up when your roster has so many holes. OTOH, Maccagnan knew he needed to find a FQB after whiffing on Hack. He could've taken Watson or Mahomes in 2017 without surrendering any picks. I agree 100% that Sam was set up to fail when the next pick made in that draft was an older interior DL instead of Orlando Brown.
To be fair, trading to get Sam IMO was the right call, because the franchise needed a QB...who knew it would fail? That's the risk you take in general. And yes the staff did him no favors between talent and the OL, so that maybe moreso on the team failing Sam then Sam not being as good as many thought. also Teddy was coming off that dreadful leg injury, who knew what he'd be just a year or so removed from it. In hindsight, I do feel Teddy has what it takes to be a stand-in type QB...someone who's more of a game manager.
A made this post for a couple of reasons. One is that there is nothing else to talk about this boring season. I mean really - come on. More importantly there is a lesson to be learned from this going into this off season. I know none of us are the actual GM but so many here are in the same mindset they were in 2018. But we are not in that much better shape then we were in 2018. We are rebuilding. Slow down and look at the options.
But we can take Trevor without trading up and surround him with playmakers in FA and the draft. We already have Mims and Crowder for him to work with. I believe Joe knows we need a RB, WR, and TE to give us a complete group of skill position players.
I understand the sentiment of this post but at the time this was the absolute right move. There were 3-4 guys being labeled potential franchise QBs coming out and if you traded up to 3, you were guaranteed one of the two best. And yes, at the time Darnold was the best with Mayfield being the sexy pick. We made the right move, we got the right guy, then we managed to completely fuck it up. Some of it falls on the player but a LOT of it falls on the franchise. It's why I cant get all that excited about Trevor Lawrence because the last time we were in this situation, the collective thought was "FINALLY!" and look what happened... We are the Jets, we love snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I don't expect that to change any time soon.
Even if we kept the picks Maccagnan would still be making them. The Jets management and coaches are brain dead. I'm waiting to see what Douglas does in hiring a coach and with all these draft picks in the coming years. Our scouting has been the problem hopefully JD can fix that part of it.
As for this coming offseason it will be interesting to see what the Jets do with their other picks. We have a lot of picks and while drafting TL is a no brainer, the other picks and continuing to build the team around TL will be the key. Well that and who JD hires as the next HC.
There are a few flaws in this post imo. #1 is "Trading way too much to move up 3 spaces." It wasn't too much to give up when you are desperate for a QB. The sad thing is that it was totally unnecessary. Both Mahomes and Watson were sitting there at the Jets' 1st pick in the 2017 draft. We could have had our QB without having to trade up at all. #2 is your idea that you have to build the team first before getting the QB. It is flat out wrong. One can build that way, but it's not the only way, nor is it the best way to build a team. Unless you're consistently awful, you don't get a chance to draft a topnotch QB prospect often. It's why if the Jets finish with the #1 pick in the 2021 draft, they MUST take Trevor Lawrence. Once you build the team, you're not bad enough to draft in the top 10 (unless you suck at drafting, in which case, you probably haven't built the team well, if at all), and thus it's going to cost you a LOT to trade up. If you want to talk about trading way too much to move up a few spaces, then build your team first, and then have to give up two or three first round picks and a second and third or something akin to that. THAT'S too much to give to trade up to take a QB. That's precisely why one should take a QB when they get the chance and then build around him. #3 is your statement that Mayfield would have been the only QB taken in the top 5 and that we could have gotten Sam at #6. That is flat out wrong. Denver needed a QB as badly as the Jets did, and the word was that had the Jets not traded up ahead of Denver, Denver would have taken Darnold, and would have left the Jets with either taking Allen, Rosen, Lamar Jackson or waiting until 2019 and taking Quenton Nelson. Mac made more than his share of mistakes, but he DID do his due diligence and Denver would have taken Darnold if he was there. Your point that we started screwing Sam before we even picked him is valid, because Bowles was still the HC, and Mac had no idea how to build a team. The Herndon pick was fine (at least it was his rookie season), but taking Shepherd, Nickerson, Fatukasi, and Cannon were not. All of those picks should have been on the offense: OL and skill position players. That's why it was an even bigger mistake not to have taken one of Mahomes and Watson. Then no trade up was necessary. Instead of taking Maye with the 2017 2nd round pick, Mac should have taken Curtis Samuel, one of the other following offensive players, or traded down. The only other offensive players who were drafted closely following the pick of Maye were RB Dalvin Cook (whom Mac wouldn't have taken due to character issues), TE Gerald Everett, TE Adam Shaheen, and Joe Mixon (whom Mac wouldn't have taken because of character issues). WR JuJu Smith-Schuster, C Ethan Pocic, OG Dion Dawkins, and OG Taylor Moton were taken at the bottom of the second round. Personally, I think he should have traded down and taken one of Smith-Schuster, Moton or Dawkins, and added an additional 3rd or 4th round pick. Then with the Jets' 3rd round pick, Mac should probably have taken Chris Godwin. Rumor has it that he wanted RB Alvin Kamara who went a few picks earlier. Cooper Kupp also went before the Jets' pick. The other offensive players that went in the third round were C Pat Elflein, OG Dan Feeney, WR Taywan Tayklor, WR ArDarius Stewart, WR Carlos Henderson, OT Antonio Garcia, RB Kareem Hunt, QB Davis Webb, and RB D'Onta Foreman. If he had netted an additional 3rd round pick from the trade down in the 2nd round, then Dan Feeney probably should have been the pick. (I'm not certain if Kareem Hunt had character issues in college or if they didn't surface until the NFL). It's interesting that Webb wound up on the Jets, Stewart had a cup of coffee on the Jets, Garcia was on the Jets for a very short time, and now Elflein is on the team. The Stewart pick was taken with the pick that the Jets obtained from trading down. With the 4th round pick Mac got from the Rams, he took WR Chad Hansen. At least Mac recognized that the WR corps needed upgrading, but I don't think he could have picked two worse WR prospects than Stewart and Hansen. In the 5th round he took TE Jordan Leggett. Again, he recognized that he needed to add offense, but took a player who was known for being lazy. In the 4th round either TE George Kittle or RB Marlon Mack would have been the best pick, and with the 5th round pick it would probably have been better to have used it in an earlier trade up or taken a defensive player. He could have come out of the 2017 draft with Mahomes/Watson, Moton/Dawkins, Chris Godwin, Dan Feeney, and George Kittle. That draft would have been a HR and would have given us a solid offensive start. Then in 2018, Mac could have added Edge Bradley Chubb at #6 (Denver would have taken Darnold), one of OG Braden Smith/C James Daniels/WR Courtland Sutton with their 2nd round pick, with Seattle's 2nd round pick they could have taken one of TE Dallas Goedert/OG Connor Williams/WR Anthony Miller/RB Derrius Guice/WR James Washington/WR JJ Chark/OT Brian O'Neill, or he could have taken a CB (MJ Stewart or Donte Jackson). In the 3rd round he could have taken one of WR Michael Gallup, OT Orlando Brown, TE Mark Andrews, or a defensive player. So, between those two drafts, the Jets could have added Mahomes/Watson, Moton/Dawkins, Chris Godwin, Dan Feeney, George Kittle, Edge Bradley Chubb, Braden Smith/James Daniels/Courtland Sutton, Orlando Brown, Connor Williams and maybe a couple of CBs, and Mac still would have had his 2nd round pick in 2019 with which he could have taken Rock Ya Sin. He could have also taken Quentin Nelson in 2018 instead of Chubb. That's what has really hurt the Jets, NOT trading up for Sam. That would have been a heck of a lot better than what you propose we could have had by simply not trading up for Sam. If we had built that team around Teddy, he would probably still be the QB if he played the way he has for Carolina and if he wasn't re-injured playing for the Jets.
All I can say is, if you're going to be selective and only go back to 2018 as the root of the problem, you're overlooking the obvious: 2017 taking a Safety instead of a potential FQB in Mahomes or Watson. It was the biggest mistake of ALL the mistakes Maccagnan made and if Chris Johnson knew ANYTHING about football and the importance of having a FQB, he would've fired Macc on the spot and had someone else make the rest of the picks in that draft. As to "learning lessons" for this upcoming draft, IDK about that because the situations are different. I don't know what Douglas thinks of Darnold, nor does anyone here (unless JD has an account here). I DO know that the majority here think Darnold is done and cannot be the QB, and therefore Douglas will absolutely, positively be drafting a QB and in most people's opinion that will be TL with the 1st pick. I'm not so sure. None of us have seen enough of JD's work to be able to predict what he'll do. As of now, here's what I see as possibilities: 1. Agrees with the consensus here and wants to replace Darnold, so he takes Lawrence with the 1st pick. 2. Agrees with the consensus here and wants to replace Darnold, so he takes Fields with the 1st pick. 3. Agrees with the consensus here and wants to replace Darnold, so he takes Wilson with the 1st pick. 4. Agrees with the consensus here and wants to replace Darnold, but he doesn't have the 1st pick, so he takes Fields or Wilson with the 2nd pick. 5. Agrees with the consensus here and wants to replace Darnold, but is okay with any one of Lawrence, Fields, or Wilson, and trades the #1 pick for a ton of assets to swap with the Jags. 6. Agrees with the consensus here and wants to replace Darnold, but is okay with any one of Lawrence, Fields, or Wilson, and trades the #1 pick for a ton of assets to swap with a team a few picks lower where he believes he can still get either Fields or Wilson. 7. Does not agree that Darnold can't be FQB and trades the 1st pick for a TON of assets and focuses on building up the OL, WR, TE, RB, pass rush, and CB positions. There are other possibilities of course, but these are the ones I think are most likely. Personally I'm hoping for #1 above.
No firm evidence, but I believe both Bowles & Mac were given a mandate by the Johnsons to draft a QB round 1 in that season. When the consensus was it was the "Big 3" or 4...Mac had to force his hand to assure they got one of the QB's. I also believe this is the same reason Mac was kept on after Bowles(CJ told him if he drafted QB in 18 he'd have immunity into 2019)was let go;Along w. aiding in the coaching search since the other option would likely have been Korn-ferry or Charlie Casserly again.
I don't think #s 5 or 6 are realistic. He already has 4 - 1st round picks over the next two drafts that he will have to re-sign in 5 years if he makes good picks with all of them. If he trades down for a bunch of picks, that's either going to give him several more 1st round picks, or 1st round picks, 2nd round picks and 3rd round picks. He can only negotiate with so many at one time, and those cap hits might would be too much even 4 years from now, and then again the same the next year. It would also reduce the number or quantity of FAs he could sign this year, and it would be too many rookies, and not enough veterans. I also don't think that Jacksonville would burn a lot of draft picks to move up, even for Lawrence. If Caldwell and Marrone were going to still be there, maybe, but a new GM is going to want to have draft picks to use, and if the new HC has a defensive background, he's going to want to improve that D. In order to pass on Lawrence, I think Douglas would have to have evidence that Lawrence is doing cocaine or crystal meth; otherwise, he knows the ridicule he would be subjected to, and that one move would be career-defining, and quite likely, career-ending. It would have the media and most of the Jets fanbase in an uproar and wanting his head.
So you're just going to go back 3-4 years and cherry pick the best players and say you think we should've taken them? We could do this all day with Jets drafts and what not. Trading up for Darnold was the right move at the time. This was hailed as the draft of all drafts to get a franchise quarterback and there was expected to be a relative two year lull at least before the league saw a couple legitimate options past the first pick. Kyler Murray in 2019 was an extremely late riser and off the radar as a top pick, as was Burrow before his senior year. It's about the only right move that Maccagnan made even though it was a swing and a miss.
Kind of like how the media and fan base feel about Gase still being here and management ignoring all that.
Yeah, but I think it would be a LOT worse. Everyone in the media and from other teams would be laughing their asses off at the Jets.
The failure was not re-setting the HC alongside our new FQB. Was mentoned plenty that Rosen was the most ready with the implication (and a lot of people stating) that Darnold had the most raw talent and potentially higher ceiling. If he had sat behind a veteran (McNown at the time) and been coached/tutored then he might of developed better. Bowles needed to win however and Sam was serviceable with the ready excuse of 'growing pains' so he was thrown into the thick of it. Even if Gase wasn't such a disaster and had a record nearer .500, I'd still go with pairing a new HC with new FQB everytime.
trading up to #3 before knowing which qbs would be on the board was a dumb move at the time and with hindsight
