Today could be a defining day for the argument. Brady dominated a good Raiders team on the road. Belichick's team got embarrassed at home by 49ers. I have always claimed it was Beli and good old nyjunc always said it was Brady. He might be right actually. I love the collapse of Pats regardless. Fuck both in the end.
It has always been Brady, in my opinion. There has always been this argument in my family with my brother in law. I have always said Brady is what made Bellichick. This year is proof of that
I think we need to see Belichick get his own QB before determining that. Did anyone see Cam today? Every incompletion was badly underthrown or an interception. Same thing last week. I'd like to see Belichick with a handpicked QB he drafted in the first couple rounds. I also don't really consider Stidham that. He also went toe to toe with Mahomes + Reid for three quarters with Brian Hoyer. Hoyer made two awful plays or else it would've been 10-9 at half time. I wouldn't say it's definitely Brady yet.
Brady is on a stacked team. Belichick is on a COVID-riddled team without a QB. I give Vader the benefit of the doubt for now.
Jamies Winston threw 33 TDs and for over 5000 yards last year with the Bucs. Since then, for Brady, they have added Rob Gronkowski and Tyler Johnson! And they are about to add Antonio Brown!! If Brady doesn’t win the Super Bowl with that cast, he should retire. Especially when you also consider the running attack of Leonard Fournette, LeSean McCoy, Ronald Jones & K’Shawn Vaughan. This is possibly the best receiving line-up in history! Imagine trying to cover this set: Antonio Brown (12,000 yards & 79 TDs) Rob Gronkowski (9,000 yards & 93 TDs) Mike Evans (7,500 yards & 54 TDs) Chris Godwin (2,800 yards & 18 TDs) Tyler Johnson/OJ Howard/Cameron Brate/Scotty Miller Any starting QB would put up great numbers with that supporting cast!
This year could end up contributing to a referendum on BB's abilities as a GM (I'm not sure what great signings or drafts he has to point to in recent years), but IMO not as a coach. And as others have said, Tampa Bay is right up there with Kansas City in terms of talent, so their successes have to be viewed that way. The biggest thing Brady might be contributing might actually be belief in themselves and players wanting to come play with him. Personally I'm rooting hard against both of them, but if I have to choose I'll go with Darth Vader over Emperor Palpatine (sorry, @ConcordeChops, in the Star Wars scenario BB is clearly the Sith Lord master, and TB is the apprentice). The incredulity of the spoiled Pats fans that their team might actually be bad combined with the heartbreak of watching their BFF win for someone else is just too amusing.
They weren't that pretty on offense last year with Brady and add in the Covid opt-outs (especially Hightower) with Edelmann nicked up - That's an average team. Tampa is stacked right now on offense and their D last year was pretty damn good. If they don;t at least make the Championship game then I'd be shocked.
Beli picks all his own players. Would AB & Gronk be in Tampa without Brady? Don't think so. Put that check mark in the TB column.
FWIW, I've gone to PatsPulpit and the general feeling I got was they're not too thrilled with Bill now.
It’s Cam, he’s not a good QB, they are running the same offensive system with a below average QB. The buccaneers are loaded with talent and have one of the better offensive minded HC in the game in Bruce Arians. Give Bellicheat a good QB and Patriots go back to winning games.
Great point too. They lost two defensive starters (Chung and Hightower) but Hightower hurts them a lot more than has been publicly spoken about. He's their leader and QB of the defense. He'll never get the props he deserves because he doesn't put up any high statistics (even in the tackles category) but Hightower is one of the best blitzing linebackers I've ever seen from the ILB spot. They haven't had a really good edge rusher in a long time (outside of a couple years of Chandler Jones) and they rely on interior blitzing and the defense was always pressuring quarterbacks.
You can't use this year as a comparison. Cam Newton is trash. He lost 8 quality players to covid opt-outs. His QB is bad. Meanwhile Brady is surrounded by talent at WR and TE so hardly a shocker he's producing.
Look how many Patriot Patriot players are out to save cap and keep a roster for the covid cap years. Meanwhile in Tampa, they are going all in Signing any FA possible. Definitely not a good time to compare them. Pat's building a treasure chest for FA when there will be some of the leagues best players avail. Tampa GM forcing AB on Bruce Arians
Brady was the key factor. However Belichik took advantage of his presence in ways that other coaches would not have - primarily by getting Brady to buy into the Patriot Way and take lower salaries than his peers. That in turn allowed Belichik to run a very tight ship against the cap. The cap is the enemy for 90% of the NFL. Ownership is the enemy for the other 10%. Belichik got the cap under control and kept it under control and sent some pretty good players packing in the process.
The correct answer is both. It was the combination of both their skills that resulted in that dominant run. Brady went off to a much better scenario and looks as good as were used to seeing. Belichick is missing like 10 starters and has a rebuilding team, that's missed like 3 weeks worth of practices already. We should get a better indication of Belichick when he spends some of that cap money and hand picks a QB. Both can eat a dick and I hope they lose everytime. It's going so-so.
Brook, I will argue it was both. Besides if it wasn't for Bill Belichick, Brady would not have got his start. I remember many folks and Pats fans wanting the team to go back to Drew Bledsoe. If you look at any NFL or sports dynasty, you typically see players followed by a coach. The Celtics had players and Red Auerbach is an example. Can the Tampa Bay Bucs win the SB this year? Sure why not. But will they have a dynasty? I say no, not under just Brady. Even if Belichick gets another good QB, as I said in the past, QBs like Brady don't grow on trees. Bill can win another SB in the future maybe, but will he have a dynasty, I would say most likely not. Pats fans are going to find out how difficult it is to replace Brady in the upcoming years. We Jet fans already know how difficult it is to find a franchise QB.
It was never Bill. It was always Brady. Bill had a career losing record in CLE during 4-5 years without Brady. Bill had a losing record in NE with Drew Bledsoe during first year in NE. Bill went from 16-0 with Brady the season before to 11-5 with Cassel and completely missed the playoffs. And Bill is now 2-4 without Brady here in 2020. Bill is a fraud of a career loser without Brady while Tom is the MJ23 on the QB position.
