Did you just say we didn't build around Mark? You mean besides having a top offensive line, top running game, and bringing in the best FA wideouts we could find? We did everything but hold Marks hand and he still never learned how to read defenses or throw outside the numbers. We had to give up or 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks, plus three players, to draft him. Yes our drafting sucked but Mark had a top offense around him and he was still a liability. So you think two 1st round picks, a 2nd, two 3rds, a 4th, two 5ths, and three 6th round picks will "build a team practically from scratch"? With our reputation being trashed worse than ever this season here is what will happen in FA. We will sign a stud or two for top dollar, as that is the only way they will come here. Then we will get a bushel of FAs that couldn't sign anywhere else. That is where the terrible management of this season is leading us. I get it - you dont want to hear any talk of trading the TL pick. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't at this point. I don't know - nobody will know until the end of the season when we can see more clearly what is going on and what his actual trade value will be, and to whom. Also, to me, it will depend on who our HC is. If we get a solid offensive guru who knows QBs and how to work with them then take TL. If not, taking the picks might be the best option.
Word. Billl Parcells cheated the Jets Organization out of Peyton Manning at the cost of HIS "win now" agenda and massive ego. This has somehow gone massively under reported in the Jet Universe.
Anyone who has suffered as a fan of this pathetic excuse of a franchise for more than three decades should look back fondly at the Parcells era as one of the best times to be a Jet fan. You can nitpick all you want but he found quality starters in later rounds of the draft, made some of the greatest free agency signings in our history, set up two of his successors for winning seasons, and came very close to bringing us to a SB victory. The football takes a couple funny bounces in the AFC Championship game and Vinny Testaverde is holding the Lombardi trophy in the locker room.
Great post. I remember in 2010 when the Jets mortgaged the future off of the success in 2009 to try and win it all. Those of us that paid attention to the cap/trade/draft stuff knew it would be a couple of tough years, but we all were willing to give it a shot. 2012 rolled around and we were paying the price in a huge way. THEN, the drafts got even worse. Idzik set us back a few years, Maccagnan the same, and next thing you know, here we are trying to recover yet again. Hopefully Douglas stays the course and does it the right way. But drafting and developing the talent is the biggest key.
To be clear, I wasn't trying to make excuses for Sanchez. He should have never have been drafted. He was not that talented, not smart, had a low football IQ, and had only started for one year at USC, and while we got a great trade up deal, we still had to give up stuff to get that stiff. I didn't like any of the QBs that year in the draft. I was just pointing out that the OL was already in place. They brought in WRs, but didn't draft any that I recall. The team isn't going to be built in one draft, nor should it. It's unrealistic thinking to think it could be built in one year. The rebuild is going to take several years. If Douglas trades down for a haul of picks, most likely they'll be spread over the 2021 and 2022 drafts. You can't have half the roster's contracts ending in the same year or wind up having to re-sign 2/3 of the roster within a 2-year period. We'd wind up losing a lot of players because we didn't have the cap space. This isn't Madden. That's why the rebuild is going to take 3-4 years. The Jets can take a huge step forward next offseason between FA and the draft, and if they take Lawrence, they'll have two of the three most important parts of their roster done (QB and LT). That would be HUGE. They could also possibly add a good edge in the draft, and then they'll have the top three positions filled. That would help them become competitive sooner, and they wouldn't have to worry about trying to find a QB later. It would be easier to draft filling out the rest of the roster, and they wouldn't have to try to trade a bevy of picks to trade up and get a QB or Edge, and they have extra picks in 2022. If Douglas trades down and tries to roll with Sam, at best, we'd only have the LT and Edge positions filled, but the most important position would still be missing, and would be a lot harder to get since the rest of the team was upgraded and they'd be drafting lower, and possibly much lower in the draft. That's my argument against trading down. Normally, I'd be ecstatic about the possibility of trading down. Looking at it another way, how many times over the last 40 years have the Jets had the opportunity to draft an elite QB? The last one was Mahomes or Watson. Before that it was Peyton Manning, but Parcells screwed us out of Manning. I don't count Brady, because he wasn't considered elite entering the draft. Before that, it was Marino. I don't want to hope that we can get to and win a SB once. The Patriots, Bills and Dolphins have all dominated this division for years at a time. We're the only team that hasn't. I want to see this team be the division champ for 10 straight years and win multiple SBs. The best way, and perhaps the only realistic way to do that, is to have an elite QB. Lawrence is a generational QB prospect. They don't grow on trees. I've seen enough lousy QB play on the Jets to last several lifetimes. That said, I'm fully aware that Douglas could trade down, or he could even stay put take Sewell. If he does, he does. The only two critical things for me are that Gase is no longer HC, and that Douglas seriously upgrades both the WR position and the OL between FA and the draft in 2021. Taking Lawrence is a close #3 however. If both numbers one and two don't happen, I'm done as a Jets fan after 55 years. That could also happen if Douglas passes on Lawrence. I will lose almost all trust and faith in him if he doesn't take Lawrence.
If we drafted PM we would have win multiple SBs. With Parcells as coach/GM and beyond. He probably stays. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You and I are on the same page, Ouchy. I'll go a step further, and forecast that the Jets will overpay more than a few washed-up FAs, and after one or two seasons, they will all fall off and leave the franchise with a dump truck load of dead money hitting the cap. As seasons 3 and 4 of the TL era roll around, there will be no talent and no money to bring in any talent, right when our shining knight of a QB needs them the most.
Wrong coach, bad defense, injuries can happen. There are many top flight QBs that never won a SB. Dan Fouts, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Fran Tarkenton, Warren Moon, Ken Anderson, Vinny Terstaverde, Phillip Rivers, etc.
You are correct-- the team must be built over 3-4 drafts. You are also correct -- the opportunity to draft an elite QB prospect doesn't come around every year. HOWEVER--the only way to build a roster that will be effective, is to have 2-3 drafts worth of players on the roster, particularly at least 3-4 young linemen in place BEFORE you start your young QB. EITHER, the team needs to spend two or three more drafts building a roster prior to selecting their elite QB (presumably, they'd have to trade up at that point) OR, they need to bring in TL and commit to sitting him for 2-3 years while they build a team. I suspect the odds of bringing him in and sitting him are very very very near to ZERO-- so I say trade down and try to reduce the number of drafts required by getting more picks now. IF I thought there was any chance in hell the Jets would sit him for two years while they build a suitable roster, my opinion would be different.
You have a point, and we are the jets... Yeah, even Peyton had only one until he was with Indy, and gifted one at end of his career. He was literally best QB in that era, yes better than Brady, I think with Parcells, he would have won more than with Indy because we would have had better RBs and better Defenses, But again, he was competing with Brady/NE. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My problem with Parcells is that while in contrast to the last 10 years his reign seems great, his teams were always about him and his ego. He believed he was greater than any player, and therefore he didn't need a great QB like Manning. I give him credit, he was a great motivator, and his teams were always great at the fundamentals, but they were built with the idea that they needed him as the HC. I actually think that's the reason Bellichick bailed, because he knew that team was "Parcell's guys" and flawed.
I totally disagree with the bold. That might be the most efficient capwise, but it is NOT the only way to build a roster that will be effective. You have to take the QB when you get a chance to take him. There are no guarantees later that a good QB will be available to you. Bad teams are always going to be the ones that have the first shot at drafting an elite QB, and 99% of the time, they're going to take that QB, not trade down. So the Jets more than likely would not be able to trade up for a topnotch QB prospect, they'd have to settle for one in a lower round, reach for one, or trade up for a lesser QB prospect. None of those are winning propositions. I'm sorry, I respect you and your opinion, but in this instance, I think your reasoning is flawed, and imo the only thing that makes any sense is to take Lawrence. Why waste two years of Lawrence's career? QBs do come in an play well from the start. Look at Joe Burrow of the Bengals. Look at Justin Herbert of the Chargers. Look at Cam Newton of the Panthers. Look at Garndner Minshew of the Jaguars, and the guy who started for the Panthers last year, and neither of them have a fraction of the ability of Lawrence. There's every reason to believe that Lawrence could come in and play just as well, if not better, than Burrow and Herbert.
I agree with this for the most part, but I disagree that you should pass over a prospect as highly rated as Lawrence if you have the chance to draft him knowing that in another 2 years you're likely to have to pay through the nose to have a shot at a highly rated QB (who may not even be as good as TL). If the Jets have the #1 pick and Lawrence hasn't decided to run from them by going back to school, they have to take him, The only way they shouldn't is if somehow Darnold proves over the rest of this ruined season that he can be the FQB, and while I hope for the best with him, as long as Gase is here, and with the sub-NFL support he has, I seriously doubt he can do that. At best, he might be able to show enough to earn a chance to compete against Lawrence for the starting job next season, and likely wind up as the #2 off the bench. If that happens, I would certainly consider offers for Sam. Best case scenario for me is that they get Lawrence and Darnold shows enough to win the starting job at least to start the season, and hopefully does well enough son that Lawrence can sit and learn for a year enabling him to beat out Darnold in Year #2. That would then put him more on the timeline you mentioned where there would be even more talent around him and increase his odds of success.
I agree with one exception. There will be no year two with Darnold. Next year is Darnold's 4th season. They have to decide this offseason whether they will accept the 5th year option or not. If they do, they have to pay him $25 million that 5th season. The Jets aren't going to keep Lawrence on the bench and pay Sam $25 million. I would expect the Jets to trade Darnold at some point before the trade deadline next season, Lawrence to start and Morgan to be the #2, with maybe White as the #3.
1st Bold: And yet, the last time a QB drafted at the top of the draft by a team that earned the top pick, rather than traded up for it, and took that team to a championship was Troy Aikman in 1989. 2nd Bold: Lawrence could well be much better than Burrow or Herbert--just not for the Jets. The Jets entire roster is the reason to believe nobody is going to come here and play just as well as those guys have. I agree with not passing on a franchise QB, for any franchise you can trust to build a team around that player. The Jets are not that franchise--they have proven it over and over. I can't agree with keeping Darnold around if they choose to select any 1st round QB. There are way too many holes on this roster not to trade him for a player or pick that can help the new QB.
I used to buy into the idea that an elite QB is the way to build a winning franchise. The older I get, the more I realize that the same teams that were winning division titles and competing for championships when I was a kid are the ones that are competing for titles and championships today. The few teams that have risen up or fallen down since then, have also had major ownership changes in that time. Owners are what build winning franchises, and the Jets have garbage owners. They might get super lucky and squeeze out a lone Super Bowl victory someday, but until they're sold, the Jets will never build a real winner. 19 out of 32 teams (over 59%) have 1 or fewer Super Bowl rings. 6 out of 32 teams (18.75%) have 4 or more Super Bowl rings. 10 teams have 5 or more Super Bowl appearances. 10 teams have 1 or 0 Super Bowl appearances. Where do the Jets fall? The only way one individual is turning this ship around is if that individual buys the team-- nobody is doing it from the roster.
