No question about it. Gase and Darnold held Robby back here. It’s no surprise he is doing much better there. I don’t think he’s top 3 in the league good but he’s better than people here’s gave him credit for. A talent like Lawrence doesn’t come around very often so if the Jets get #1, it’s a no brainer to draft him. Especially since Sam will have to get his option picked up here soon and will start costing a lot and has not shown he is worth overpaying for.
Preach it G&C. Get Sam some friggen help. If the Jets are in position to have the #1 pick and another team is willing to offer a haul of draft picks for it to me that is not a hard decision.
34 QBs have been selected first overall, and 3 are currently in the Hall of Fame. Add Peyton and we're at 4. If Eli gets in then 5. Then there are the young ones who have a shot. So it's more like 15+% than 5%. Also, Lawrence is more highly-regarded than the typical #1 pick, so that would boost his odds further. More importantly, it's pretty clear at this point that Lawrence's Hall of Fame odds are way higher than Sam's. And while you can with a Super Bowl without an elite QB, it's a lot easier to win one with an elite QB, especially when your QB is no longer on his rookie deal. Plus it isn't all about winning Super Bowls, having an elite QB gives you years of exciting seasons where you're consistently in contention.
Yeah. I have Lawrence in the Luck/Peyton Manning tier. Peyton is obviously a Hall of Famer and Luck probably would've been if not for the injuries/retirement.
so still 15% chance. and do we not remember suck for sam? now a few years later everyone wants him gone.
Yes I remember. And it hasn't worked out, so rather than get overly attached to Sam, if we end up in position to draft Lawrence, it'll be time to move on.
This is spot on. Suck for Sam was after Sam had a good season culminated by great Rose Bowl game. His next season wasn't good. That's why he didn't go #1. After Sam's poor showing in his second College season there was no longer Suck for Sam, there was no consensus #1 player. Sam was more like Rosen with but more turnover prone, better attitude, and without injury/concussion history. Baker was polished, bad attitude, but short. Allen had a cannon for the arm, but not accurate. These were the guys considered top QBs. In this draft, there is no question who #1 is. And that doesn't mean Lawrence will definitely work out, but at this point he gives a FAR better chance than Sam, who is on his 3d year and still has a lot of question marks.
Like when the chargers drafted eli 1st overall and moved on from brees. yeah that worked so well for them huh? what about maimi moving on from tannehill for him to go to tenn and make the playoffs. now they have a rookie QB 2 years later who is sitting behind a 36 year old journeyman. we're much better off using the picks to build around sam. Tlaw won't be successful here with the roster we have. and we'll waste away his rookie deal like we did sam and worse off he could be a complete bust
Because Mac left us with 0 offensive line and Douglas had to scramble to find someone, ANYONE to fill that hole The current case of the receiving corps is pathetic, though yes injuries have had a lot to do with it. But there is no excuse for the Robby Anderson debacle or just in general not prioritizing the position. Mac didn't care about receivers either. How asinine. Laughable is it that we drafted Wesco. Hunter Renfrow and Darius Slayton went in the next round. These aren't Jerry Rice's here but why is someone like Wesco even being considered by us when we're so WR poor. And this year with James Morgan. Why in the hell are you taking this never-will-be scrub over a receiver or o-lineman
What about the Vikings moving on from Christian Ponder? Or the Titans moving on from Jake Locker? The examples go both ways. Everyone hear prefers Sam to be the franchise quarterback and we'll draft a receiver, edge rusher, runningback and interior offensive lineman and they all start and Sam throws 30 touchdowns next year and we go 10-6. The reality is that quarterbacks rarely make it through three head coaches. Mariota and Winston didn't and were in very similar situations contract/production wise. And they both found more success than Darnold has. We've hurt Darnold more than we've helped him and his bad habits have turned into horrible habits. Are they correctable? Maybe. But sometimes it's better for all parties involved to wipe the slate clean and figure out a way to build forward when you have a premium top pick. There is zero chance they leave Lawrence on the table or should. Fields or Lance are both bigger debates as I personally don't like either. Sam was supposed to save the franchise. He hasn't and actually looks worse now in his 3rd year. Can he become Brett Favre? He's more likely to be Andy Dalton if we put pieces around him. Is that what we're looking for?
I understand your POV. but are you really saying sam is as bad as ponder? have you watched him play? give him some weapons and he makes magic happen. he's only 23 years old. he has 1 year left on his rookie deal plus an option year. we have 2 more years to surround him with talent and see if he's the man to lead this team. the reason we suck is lack of consistency from the top. teams don't survive large turnover. look at all the successful teams over time. steelers, saints, pats, seahawks. they all have stability at the top with a GM and a coach. that's the priority right now. I like JD but we need a new HC and some talent on the roster. we are in a position for both of those. drafting a QB right now isn't a great move. it's a wasted pick to take Tlaw and throw him in the same situation sam was so we can ruin him and trade him away 3 years from now for the next hot QB and let the cycle keep repeating. We knew sanchez wasn't the answer becuase he had a top 5 D, great WRs , great o-line, and he still failed. sam has literally nothing around him and awful coaching. Mahomes wouldn't succeed here let alone Tlaw
Not bad as we've moved on from quarterbacks that sucked and haven't had any NFL success after leaving us. Pennington for a year before his arm fell off and Favre ran as fast as he could. He's getting worse. And he doesn't pull the trigger on throwing the ball to the weapons that do get open. And sometimes he does and he misses them. That's all less concerning to me though. The concerning part is how terrified he looks in the pocket on most drop backs. He feels pressure when it's not there. And he doesn't navigate the pocket well without trying to escape it (stepping up, sliding left or right, etc.). Those are not taught and it's hard to recover once that habit is established. Not to mention from his rookie year until now - he struggles to pickup chunk plays that aren't rollouts. I hope he fixes it. But his issues look like things that are extremely tough to fix. Better coaching will help. And whatever the reason is that he has developed that scared mentality is irrelevant moving forward because the habit is currently here. Lawrence is the only passer at the moment worth making the move for though. So I'd give Sam another year if we don't pick #1 and try to do as you said.
penington was injured. he was good when healthy. favre was a stop gap. a better example was sanchez. we built around him and he failed becuase he was bad. Sam has had no help at all. You think mahomes would be so great without that o-line, run game, kelce, hill, watkins, and the WR depth? every young QB has weapons. sam has shit. same thing with robby. everyone here shit on him. I said he was way better then people gave him credit for. I said he would have 1k+ yards with the panthers when they signed him. he's not 3rd in the NFL in yards after 5 games. we also "moved on" from teddy who is his QB. teddy and robby are tearing it up for carolina. 2 players we had years ago. you really think the solution is letting talent walk? that's what happens with no o-line, bad play calling, no run game, and nobody to throw to. i'm sure Tlaw will do great throwing to gore on wheel routes lol all we would do is ruin Tlaw like we are ruining darnold and like we ruined robby and bell. we are a shitshow of a team. tlaw isn't fixing that
It's not about fixing your past wrongs. It's about getting a better prospect to build around and not repeating year and off-season 1, 2, and 3 that we did with Sam. Sam is no longer sophomore USC Sam with all the upside in the world. He's interception prone scared to stand in the pocket NFL Sam. And that's what most people are missing. Better weapons and line play will obviously make him a better player. But will that suddenly make him into a franchise quarterback? Or do we hope to revive him into a competent game manager? Or do we take the Andrew Luck-esque prospect and try it again? For what it's worth, he is the best prospect since Luck. And the Colts went 2-14 to 11-5 with an equally bad roster that watched him get ragdolled around all season, two good receivers and an equally bad defense. Some quarterbacks can instantly turn programs around by themselves beyond popular belief here. You said we ruined Sam, Bell and Robby right? Why keep Sam then if he's ruined?
Sam is now the talented NFL QB who's been in a bad spot. his talent didn't go away. using a 1st overall on a QB is a waste unless you think sam is done in the NFL. that pick could lead to a stud WR and stud o-lineman to help sam. Sam was also the best prospect since luck. and considered better then mahomes. all that means nothing. trubisky was a better prospect then watson and mahomes. it's all just a guessing game. But of course why would you care, the jets will do like you said, be awful another 5 years and you'll be repeating the same nonsense while sam goes on to a good career and we still suck.
I think Tannehill is the best comparison here. Was under Gase, moved on and showed he was a lot better under good coach. And there is a chance this might happen to Sam too. There is also however a big chance that it won't. It's a huge question mark, and the fact Sam does not seem to improve in 3d year is not encouraging. Even Ryan in 3d year improved a lot. 66% completion, 27 TDs, 12 INTs, 93 passer rating. Had very similar numbers under Gase. Sam in comparison while first two years were similarly bad as Ryan, is actually worse so far in 3d year. So far 59% completion, 3 TDs, 4 INTs, 71 passer rating. This is no where near Ryan's production at similar stage nor with same coach Gase. Again, not saying Sam is a bust just yet, but the closest comparison to him that there is, Ryan, fared significantly better at the similar stage, and also did significantly better under the same shitty coach. Let's see what happens, but it is not looking good for Sam at the moment.
