At what point do you consider trading Sam? Obviously if we go 0-16 and 1-15 it means Darnold did not play well enough. But, if that happens, what would his value be anyways? Much less. If there is a team that has a QB go down, preferably NFC, you should trade him. I am sure these teams would be open to hearing a trade, I’d guess a 2nd? -Bucs -Redskins -Panthers
I think the lack of supporting cast creates a bit of a veil for people to hide Darnold's poor play behind. Is the supporting cast poor? Absolutely. The supporting cast doesn't have shitty footwork nor does it feel pressure when it's not there and send him into a panic. His struggles transcends a bad supporting cast or head coach. You can hate the head coach all you want but do you really think they don't do footwork drills to start training camp and practice every single damn day? High school teams do so you bet your ass the Jets are with him. I'm all for a coaching change because I think it's the best chance to help the kid unlock more of his potential. But the people questioning his ability to be a franchise quarterback aren't questioning it without factoring in the bad situation. It's being questioned because the kid had a pretty good pocket and sacked himself because his footwork is so bad and he panicked in a decent pocket. Or he threw two pick sixes on absolutely atrocious throws.
This is why they should trade him now, or at least before the trade deadline. Right now he's 11-19 as a starter. That isn't going to improve this season. The Jets have WAY too many holes to carry Lawrence and Darnold next year. They need to either keep Sam and trade down, or dump Sam for the pick(s) so Lawrence and Becton have at least one or two other players on the roster.
I don't think Sam is worth enough to dump him to acquire capital. I know the number is huge, but I'm not sure why there's opposition to drafting Lawrence + keeping Sam. If we take Lawrence, I'd rather we not play him right away with the dumpster fire of a roster we have. Or else we're repeating all of the mistakes we made with Darnold. And in a perfect world we try to build around Sam and don't create the Lawrence situation for ourselves because Sam plays really well the next 12 games (don't think it'll happen). It's just not that easy to propose passing on a prospect like Lawrence.
I think similar to Rosen with Zona.. if there is a better option for your franchise and coaching staff like Trevor Lawrence you take that player no matter what.
Obviously Gase thinks Darnold is "good enough" because he's playing. Most evaluators of talent rated Darnold the best QB of his class and they based that on his ability and potential, and while he has struggled, he has shown flashes of that potential, so he is capable of being a very good QB, even if he never gets to Canton. Every young QB struggles. Good coaching and a decent supporting cast make the difference whether these struggles end, or instead end their career. Until we see Sam under a competent CS and having better talent around him we won't know whether he's capable of taking them to a SB or not. He isn't the most accurate passer, but neither was Favre in his early years. With good coaching this can be improved. He's rushing his reads and bailing out of the pocket too soon, but with a better OL, this will likely improve. But one thing is certain: he has regresssed under the "QB whisperer", and will only continue to do so, perhaps beyond repair, if Gase is allowed to continue. Worst case, he's already ruined, so do we want to bring in yet another QB and subject them to the "QB whisperer"? And assuming we would want to trade him, do we want to see him continue to struggle and his value sink lower because of Gase? Who is more valuable to this franchise, Darnold or Gase? Gase brings nothing in return - unless you believe he can suddenly reverse years of failure and deliver wins. I doubt whether he ever gets a HC job again, and maybe not even an OC job. So who should they hang onto here? That the Johnsons continue to do so only reinforces the fact that they're clueless.
Call me crazy but if we land the number one pick I would sell it to the highest bidder and bring in Jameis Winston (or another QB) to compete with Darnold next year. Whoever loses is out backup giving us depth at QB for once.
I'm guessing a 2nd round pick. Positives: lots of talent, hard worker, young. Negatives: Will be more expensive than a rookie, need to reverse psychological damage done from horrible coaching. A decent team with good coaching will make Sam into a top 10 QB in my opinion. There will be competing bids for him.
We've seen plenty of terrible quarterbacks around here. Darnold is not a terrible QB. It doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to envision Darnold having a Tanehill type resurgence in the right situation someplace else. That's on the low end he could be better than that or still become the type of QB people thought he'd be when he was drafted. If Douglas gives him away for anything less than a #1, that may be too little but at this point that's what they may have to settle for, he should be fired on the spot.
Situation notwithstanding, Tannehill looked a lot better than Sam through 3 years. He was 23-25 as a starter with 63 touchdowns/42 interceptions/61% completion percentage and was averagely sacked 46.3 times per year. People who try to look to Tannehill as some sort of shining example of why Sam will be that much better in a different situation forget the fact that Tannehill was beginning to trend upwards at the same point in their careers and was a middle of the pack passer. Has Sam ever gotten there? I don't really think so.
My guess is negotiations would start at a 2nd and change but the Jets would have to settle for something like a 3rd and change. Rosen's value was a 2nd but there was only 1 year on a bad team to go by. Darnold would have more visibility since he'll have 3 full years at the end of this one. Granted he's been on bad teams as well, but I'm just not seeing the value of the 2nd given the circumstances. I think it's a losing proposition for the team getting him. Because you'll only have 1 year to look at him and then he becomes a FA. That means you have to ship picks for a 1 year rental, and if he sucks what do you do? The picks are lost and now you are not sure whether to re-sign him or not.
Because the 2021 Jets need just about 50 new players if they want to win any games at all. They can find a sacrificial QB on the open market, but they can't afford to keep Sam for that role when they could get at MINIMUM a mid-round pick for him.
But taking Trevor Lawrence doesn't necessarily blow your cap space load whether you keep Darnold or not. You're right though. This roster has a lot of holes and players like Davis, Clark, Zuniga, Perine, etc. are going to need to be starters next year if we have any hope of challenging .500. Unfortunately we also have 400 guys on 1 year contracts. The good thing is that this isn't the MLB or NHL. NFL franchises are expected to rebuild quickly and have the ability to do so. Sign JuJu, get Mims back healthy, draft another receiver, runningback and edge rusher and sign a couple guards/cornerbacks and the roster looks much better than it was.
Darnold can be a good qb in the league. Trevor L. Can be an all time great. No number of picks offered to trade up will be enough to pass on Lawrence. Those of you who would trade the #1 for more picks are delusional
If Josh Rosen got a 2 that is likely the worst we could get. Sam has really high upside. Put him on a team with a legit OL and a few playmakers and he could be very good. Put him on a team with bad playmakers have his top 5 WRs and top RB get injured. The problem with Sam right now is he has to be really really good every play for the Jets to succeed. He has to avoid rushers every play. It is inevitable he will fail. With a bad defense he stands no chance. Maybe on a team where his margin of error is bigger he can relax and play smarter. My guess is his value is a late to mid 1st. Too much upside with his ability to avoid the rush and make a play out of nothing. Teams will fall in love with him thinking they can coach him up with better talent.
I have to admit, this thread gave me a chuckle. 99% of the other threads on this board are crucifying Darnold. He “just isn’t very good,” “not a franchise qb,” “missing wide open guys” “has no elite traits” “regressed since rookie year” etc., but when it comes time to assess his value in a trade, he’s a young and promising 23 yo qb with a ton of upside lol. Btw, if the jets are in a position to take Lawrence, I think you have to take him no matter what your feelings on Darnold is. I don’t think you can pass that up because of the hope that Sam gets better. Take Lawrence and figure the rest out later
Thats just the thing, Sam is making horrible throws into highly congested areas, missing wide open receivers, etc. This is not on coaching but a result of poor decision making and accuracy issues. And if you don't know if Gase can be a good coach or not....well....
I'm certainly not ignoring his part in his struggles. I've noted that his accuracy has always been less than pinpoint, and his footwork isn't good which certainly contributes to the accuracy issues. But regardless of how many drills you do, when you have to play at game speed behind a shitty OL old habits are going to come back in a flash and undo the new habits. Moreover, the playcalling Gase employs makes all of this worse. I'm not excusing Darnold, but you or anyone else cannot evaluate him properly, and determine what's fixable and what isn't as long as Gase is the HC, and he has practice squad receivers to throw to and no running game.
He said it best: Those plays boggle the mind. Not sure what Sam is thinking. He makes amazing plays, then cannot read obvious wide open situations. It's really odd. Needs to be fixed and fast.
