Well I never expected Darnold to be "great" like I did/do Mahomes. I did expect him to be above average based on what I saw, with the potential to become a "poor man's" Favre or Elway with whom I saw similarities. But I figured the odds were against that happening with Bowles as the HC. I had slim hopes when Gase - the QB Whisperer - was hired, but saw quickly that even that was unrealistic.
The problem with Sam is that he does not look calm or in command. Every play looks like it's going to turn into a scramble drill before he finishes his drop back and he's had fairly clean pockets at times when he hits the panic bottom. I at least saw what I wanted out of him yesterday which is giving himself and his team a chance by throwing the ball down the field, it just opens the question if doing so is good for the team if he's going to make the throws/decisions that he made.
To be clear...you mean Rodgers with "two full seasons" coming straight from college and each season playing a different system with different coaches? Then absolutely not!
Oh come on. It's not a Strawman argument. Look up the 2008 GB roster. Greg Jennings. Donald Driver. Ryan Grant. I mean Ryan Grant ran for 1200 yds in 2008.
I get what you are saying, I meant your point about the age, obviously Rodgers wasn't playing yet at 23 like Sam.
I don't. But I try to look at each game in a vacuum and each season in a vacuum. As bad as the receivers are, he wasn't playing with Randy Moss and Michael Irvin last year either. He has Herndon back, and a much better offensive line. What I'm saying is - if he continues to play the same way the rest of the year, then it makes it much harder to move forward with him as a FQB. That's why I want Gase fired so badly. Gregg Williams (for whatever reason) put a charge into that Browns team when he took over an d it's still the best Baker has looked in his career. Even if they best up on some cupcakes. I want to see if he looks any different under another coach. But either way, if we do end up with the #1 pick, I do not really see any way you can trade the pick away and not take Trevor Lawrence. Unless he refuses to come here. The Browns moving out of the #1 spot for Wentz hurt them and Lawrence is 3x the prospect Wentz was.
C'mon! I usually respect your opinions, but your assessment of Darnold is unrealistic. An "improved OL"? On paper, sure. But how long have they played together? On top of that, is Gase using schemes and plays that would maximize their effectiveness? I don't think so. How much has Herndon been used in the plays called? And there's virtually no effective running game. If you put Mahomes into this situation I doubt he'd do a whole lot better (although I do believe he would do better but that's because he's a once-in-a-generation (or 2) talent). I do agree emphatically that Gase must be fired ASAP to be able to see at all what Darnold is capable of. But even then, it may be too late given the shit talent around him. Still, getting rid of Gase would be a major improvement. And I do agree that if they have the #1 pick and Lawrence is as good as he's rumored to be, then yes, they have to take him. At that point I would have him compete with Sam and the best QB becomes the starter to begin the season and the other is the backup. And assuming there's a competent HC and OC, I wouldn't be surprised if Darnold won that competition the first year, just as Faver beat out Rodgers.
I wish I could put an end to this inane argument about Sam being failure or not. In my book, it's way to early for this. You can't compare his situation to any other QB because of all the variables involved, including players he's surrounded by , coaches and ownership. Case in point : Lets talk about a QB drafted about the same level as Darnold - Eli Manning, comparing the first 3 years in the league, 2004-2006 With the Giants, Manning had a QB rating of 69.4 - Darnold's QB rating : 77.5. Manning threw for 51 TD's and 44 INTs. Sam 39/32, respectably. You can pretty much say from these key stats is that they were both on pretty much the same plane, ability wise. But the kicker to this is that Eli had some considerable support on his side, Plaxico Buress, Amani Toomer, Jeremy Shockey, Tki Barber, etc. In 2005 they won the East with an 11-5 record. And we all know the success of the Giants going further with Eli and all the playoffs and SB's they attended. Darnold just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Gase has not been the answer and JD is still under the microscope given his short tenure to this point. I'm not giving up on Sam simply because it is based on Gase's track record. That's the main gist of all that is wrong with giving up or questioning his abilities right now.
I just think there should be more accountability for the player(s) than Jets fans in general think. A play call and gameplans only goes so far. 100% of this teams issues is not the coaches fault. The gameplan against the 49ers was just fucking awful. The gameplan against the Colts was not. We saw Sam bootleg, we saw him move the ball well in the first half and he got bit by two atrocious balls. Why do you solely think there is no blame on the quarterback? He's not the first guy to be drafted into a garbage situation. He's not playing well right now, circumstances or not. I don't think anyone in the league disagrees. That's why I'd like to see a coaching change and how he looks. I think Greg Williams is willing to punch his fellow coaches in the mouth in front of the players to at least get them to play hard ala what Rex used to do.
Man, I feel horrible for this kid. I know he was terrible on Sunday, it was probably his worst game as a pro...so let's put that in perspective. He looked better year 1 than he does now. Is that because Sam lacks talent? It can't be as he's been better...Could it be a lack of talent on the team, that's probably a part of it, especially the OL from last year. But I sincerely think what we're watching here is a total lack of coaching coupled with enormous pressure Sam's putting on himself to be better for the following reasons: 1) It's year 3 and he knows he's supposed to be better 2) He knows about his 5th year option and the decision the team needs to make this off season 3) He knows the team lacks talent and that he has to do more w/ less for the team to be successful 4) He knows that if he plays bad the coach and coaching staff will be fired...especially because the biggest measuring stick for the coaches success was improvement of the QB The tragedy is this regression...that's on the player and it's also on this specific coach due to why he was hired. But you can just feel the kid trying to do way too much for the above reasons and doesn't have the coaching/tutoring/mentoring to succeed at it. If he was this bad before i'd be signing a different tune, but I've seen him be better and now I see stress, pressure and restriction in his play. If we let this kid leave and he goes to the right situation, we will regret it unless somehow we end up with Lawrence. This is clearly the worst position for the Jets to be in, year 3 regression of their future qb w/ serious talent/coaching questions, enough to make you question what the kid really is...only the Jets, makes me sick. Gase was so much worse than a bad hire, he was a bad hire at possibly the most critical time of this franchise due to him being given the keys to the future QB. His QB is Fitzpatrick, who cares, he just ends up being another bad coaching hire by the Jets. This is so so so much worse than that...
I've never said that Darnold doesn't have some of the blame, but that said, no one is perfect or without blame. The real question is: Are the things he's doing wrong, correctable, and is he capable of making those changes? If the Jets fire Gase and get a good CS, then I believe the answers to those questions are "Yes".
That's the $20+ million question. I only think this becomes a bigger question if we have a top 2 pick really. Or top 3-4 and Fields is available at our pick. The other question is if we can figure out a way to put enough talent around him that he thrives immediately OR if we're in position to take a quarterback and would like to opt for a redshirt season while the roster fixes itself over two seasons. We could realistically do both (keep Darnold, draft a QB and let the best man win from there on out). I don't like that option though. I can't remember any other modern day example other than Brees/Rivers where this worked out well for both quarterbacks and both teams. And there are a couple of top flight offensive talents that should not be passed up in this year's draft. It's actually a great draft to rebuild an offense.
He has to be able to show something vs good teams. A win against a bad team is meaningless. Unless your hope is 4-5 win seasons going forward
True but as you said there are risks. He plays the same and you again passed on a potential FQB. His trade value is lost. He plays well and has all the leverage. He held out as a rookie and could refuse to play on the tag. Is a toss up. I was just responding t picking up his option after the 2021 season and how it must be picked up this off season.
Agreed. The first step, though, is to show that he can right the ship after yesterday's debacle and put together a win against a team that is very much beatable. If he can't even do that, then he's clearly not the guy moving forward. If he can beat the Broncos, then hopefully he can make the next step and perform well against a decent team.
