We could likely get a conditional mid round pick for Darnold at this point. Anyone expecting more is mistaken imo. Especially considering his fifth year option will likely be declined and he'll be FA following 2021.
Yeah, there’s a reason that was the last point he made haha Had he started with that point, everyone would’ve immediately discarded the article. A 4th for Sam???
The problem with this board and all Jets boards, is you got 50% of the people saying how Sam Darnold is not the answer and is a below average Qb... but then everyone feels he is worth more than a 4th rounder... Which one is it? To me he’s a good enough prospect that you simply don’t even consider Lawrence... People are always bringing up Mahomes... Mahomes would not be the same player he is on the Jets. KC averages 5.2 / carry... their offensive line and playmakers are all better. Mahomes looked pretty ordinary when he was faced with pressure from the Chargers... pressure that was not even close to what Darnold has faced in every game he has played as a pro. Trent Dilfer, I believe it was him, said today’s NFL offense is more team + scheme driven vs simple great Qb play vs what it was years ago. I tend to agree with this. This is not to say Mahomes or Wilson are not great... Just that Sam is good enough with good players and good coaching to get the job done.
I disagree with the sentiment that Sam is such a good prospect that you pass on Lawrence. Lawrence is being touted as a generational QB prospect. If we’re picking 1st, you can’t pass that up unless you already have a Mahomes/Lamar/Russ-type talent behind center. This coming from someone who still thinks Sam has the potential to be a FQB. I still like Sam and think he’ll have a productive NFL career. It’s a travesty what the Jets have done to him during his short career but that’s water under the bridge now. The best we can do is set the organization up to win going forward. That starts with taking generational QB talents when you have the ability to do so.
I haven't given up on Sam, but it's hard to argue with the philosophy of not passing up on a generational prospect at the QB position. My concern is that what if the Jets did pass up on Lawrence, trade down and even if they got a windfall of picks like Washington did, will the Jets still not get where they need to be because Sam is already ruined by taking a pounding, having horrible coaching, and no weapons around him. If Sam is ruined already, then even all those picks probably won't be enough to get the Jets a Lombardi Trophy. It may have them contending every year, but Sam's inadequacies could undermine the team's play. I don't think that would happen, but it certainly could. That's why I wouldn't trade Sam immediately. Assuming we have a new HC, OC and a QB Coach, I'd let him work with Sam and then have Lawrence and Sam compete for the starting job. If Sam wins the starting job, fine. You let him start and you let Lawrence sit and learn for a year, then you re-evaluate the following season. If Lawrence is so great, he should beat out Sam. By letting Sam compete, and then showcasing Sam in preseason and if he plays well and shows that his fundamentals are fixed, then other teams will have interest in him due to the shortage of quality starters in the NFL.
I cannot believe the quick turn on Darnold from this fan base. I really hope Joe Douglas doesn't make quick decisions like that, 2 weeks into a season, during a pandemic, with his entire skill position roster injured and not great to begin with. Ridiculous.
If you can get a 3rd for Teddy Bridgwater coming off a career threatening injury and not playing for 2 years there's defiantly a franchise out there that will give you a low 1 or high 2 in hopes they can turn him into a franchise guy...the truth is somewhere inbetween he's worth nothing and we can get multiple high draft picks for him.
The bold is not the problem. The problem is in trying to generalize about a Jets board. In reality, there are only a few posters saying that Sam is not the answer, not 50%, and not everyone feels he is worth more than a 4th rounder. It's your assessment of the board, not the reality of the board that is the problem. Sam is only 23. You're also forgetting that just because Sam may not be the answer here, that doesn't mean that he couldn't be the answer with another team where he gets great coaching, has a solid OL, and has quality weapons around him. Sometimes players just need a change of scenery and stability. You're also seemingly forgetting the scarcity of quality QBs in the NFL and how many teams need a better starting QB, and you're forgetting how HCs and OCs think they can fix a QB. Because QB is the most important position, and because Sam has shown flashes of brilliance and has all the physical tools, I'm certain that other teams will think they can fix Sam and that they will be willing to give much more than a 4th round pick for him. Gase has totally misused Sam, just as he has Bell and Herndon, and every other "asset" the Jets have had. Mahome may not be the same player here that he is with the Chiefts, but with his arm talent and mobility, he would still have been plenty good enough.
Of course it would be tempting if I were the GM, and frankly, I'd say the odds are better than even that Douglas does exactly that if the Jets have the #1 pick, but it would be the wrong move. Read this article to refresh your memory on a time very similar to this when the Jets had the #1 pick and a chance to draft an absolute can't miss QB: https://deadspin.com/its-been-20-years-since-peyton-manning-the-jets-and-t-1794742180 As bad as the Jets have been over the decades, they've rarely had the #1 pick. They always seem to screw it up by winning a few meaningless games and dropping back. So when they had a 1-15 record and "won" the first pick, and they absolutely needed a QB, what did Parcells do? He waffled, and played coy, and in the end lost the chance to get Peyton Manning who by all reports was dying to play for him and the Jets in NY. This is part of the reason I don't worship Parcells as some do. Another thing that should be taken from this article is that the Colts were able to draft another can't miss QB in 2012 - Andrew Luck - while they still had Manning. Did they trade that pick away for a boat load of picks and assets which they obviously could've used? Nope! They took the can't miss QB and then had him to fall back on when Manning went to the Colts 3 years later. The moral of the story boys and girls is this: You can't have enough good QBs on your team. They are the single most important player on a football team. The only other person that's more impactful is the HC. We already know we're in a massive deficit on the latter ingredient, and we still don't know where we stand on the former one. The smartest thing for the Jets to do if they wind up with the #1 pick is to keep it and draft Lawrence, and unless they're offered a bunch for Darnold, they keep him too and allow him and Lawrence to compete, with the loser becoming a great back up and insurance.
I totally agree with you. If we’re picking 1st, we take Lawrence. Only way my opinion on that changes is we get some ungodly trade offer, thinking the Ricky Williams trade back in the day or something akin to that. If that offer doesn’t materialize, we take Lawrence, let him and Sam battle it out in TC and re-evaluate at that point. Then we could potentially look to move one of them to a QB-needy team for a solid pick, or two.
My point is not really based on Darnold not being good but moreso because teams could likely get him in FA without unloading assets if the Jets take Lawrence. If the Jets take Lawrence everyone knows Darnold is out and they can just wait for it to happen. I think Darnold will ressurrect his career on another team when he's 25.
Anyone who thinks that Mahomes would've been the same player that he's been on KC is badly mistaken. That said, he would've been the best QB in franchise history, including the immortal Namath (assuming he stayed healthy). If you watched any of the tape on Mahomes you would see a QB with other-wordly arm talent and vision. He is up there with Namath, Elway, Montana, and Manning in those aspects. Of course with Bowles and then Gase, and the lousy talent around him he would've struggled, and likely would not have been able to deliver a winning record, but he was as certain of a "sure thing" as any QB has ever been, and it's the absolute worst mistake that Maccagnan made of all the many he made. It set this franchise back at least 5 years between the loss of a FQB, and the assets he could've had that he burned to trade up the next year for Darnold. I do agree that Darnold is good enough to win a SB with the right CS and players around him, but he hasn't proven that yet. I still have faith in him, and blame the owners, former GM, Bowles, and Gase for preventing him from proving it on the field, but despite all those hurdles, he has to somehow find a way to prove it anyway, or he may well find himself on another team, which would be great for him, but bad for the Jets.
For a guy who accuses me of generalizing, this post makes a lot of generalizations of all the things I am forgetting as if one post I made includes or could include all my thoughts... Also you missed my main point. Saying you are ready to draft Trevor is saying you are done with Sam and 50%+ of every Jets forum I’ve seen feels this way. I agree on the value part (I think he’s worth a 1 based on talent/upside) - I wouldn’t move on from Sam period until his value really is a 4th rounder... The Jets have not given him enough support to fairly judge imo. Mahomes would be plenty of good enough for what? To win a superbowl on his own??? I call bs there... and if you’re not winning a SB I don’t care, there’s no awards for 2nd place. The team is broken, Qb is not the issue, but let’s ignore all the broken areas (oline, wr, rb, etc.) and get a new Qb before we even attempt to fix any of these areas. I’m glad Joe Douglas is the GM and not us fans.
In some crazy world where the Seahwaks lose Russel and lose out to earn us the #1 pick and somehow Sam elevates imself above Gase's gameplanning to get us somewhere near or above .500 - I'd expect the Jets to take Lawrence if he grades out as the next Manning/Luck. As good as Sam is or might be we're talking about a potential huge upgrade at QB and a much cheaper one that allows you to not only build of our last pick of Becton but also allows you that 4 year window to add some FA's. I think if any team found themselves with the potential to pick a Luck/Manning via actual ranking, injury effected ranking or by trade would not at least be having that discussion unless they were KC, Baltimore or the Seahawks and maybe the Cardinals.
We'll have to agree to disagree on some aspects of these two posts, because we see things pretty differently on those issues. We do agree on Sam's worth, not moving on from him, and that the Jets haven't given him enough support to fairly judge. Where we differ is that you seem to still believe that Sam will turn things around with a new HC. I'm less sure of that. I think he still can, and hope he can, but I'm not sure that he can. Like you, I'm also glad that Douglas the GM and not any of us. I believe in him and his approach so far. I'm sorry if I generalized, but you made no mention of those other factors, so how was I or anyone supposed to know? I didn't miss your main point, I just totally disagree with it. Saying one is ready to draft Trevor is NOT saying that one is done with Sam. IMO saying that one may be ready to draft Trevor means that one is going to try to make sure that one has a FQB. Football teams have competition at every other position, why not at QB? I think the idea that one has to anoint a QB the starter when one drafts him is nonsense. He can compete for a starting spot like everyone else. If Lawrence is a generational QB, and the Jets are picking #1, they almost have to draft him. One doesn't get the opportunity to draft a generational QB every day. As good as Sam is and possibly can be, he's not a generational-type QB. It concerns me that he is still making boneheaded decisions, and he doesn't seem that tough mentally. I'm not ready to give up on him, but by the same token, I'm not ready to bank the team's future on that the new HC can get him straightened out. Douglas and the Jets would look like idiots (and would be) if they passed on Lawrence, traded down and got a bunch of picks, and then Sam showed no improvement with the new HC. The talent level of the team would quite possibly be so good that the Jets would be competitive for a playoff spot every year, but due to Sam insufficiencies, not good enough to make it past the 1st or maybe 2nd round of the playoffs. They'd have too good a record to have any shot at drafting a FQB in future drafts unless they got lucky and found another Brady in a round other than the 1st. Having a competition between the two should make both better. In terms of Mahomes, he would have been good enough to make the team better than it is, and if Douglas or a better GM was still hired, and Mahomes was surrounded with talent, he would have led us to a SB. Yes, the team is broken, but QB is definitely a big part of the issue. The Jets would be better, maybe a lot better, if Sam was consistently making good decisions, good throws, and being a great leader. He seems too laid back to me, and not intense enough. I'm not ignoring any of the team's other issues. I've been talking about the OL, Edge and skill position players for years. You have it backwards. Getting the QB right is the hardest and most important thing. It should come first. One can build around a QB. Once one has the team built, it's much harder to find that right QB. Then you have to try to find a QB that fits the offense and skills of the other players rather than vice versa. An offense should be built around what a QB does well, and hides what he doesn't do well. If Mac had taken Mahomes, he would have had an additional 1st round pick and 3 - 2nd round picks with which to build around Mahomes. He still could have built around Sam, but it would have been a lot harder without that 1st and three 2nd round picks, and instead he continued drafting defense and ignoring the OL and WR positions.
I don't know where the Jets will end up draft wise, but I think Darnold's 5th year option will be picked up. It is the only logical move, unless he proves himself to be terrible (which he won't) the rest of the season. He hasn't done anything to warrant a massive extension, but he also has not been given a chance to succeed. Hopefully Douglas can put together a decent team around him in 2021 to see what he can truly do. If he shows the ability we all expect, you can sign him to an extension after 2021. If not, you can move on. If the Jets do end up with the #1 pick, I guess you take Lawrence and move on from Sam, but that still seems highly unlikely to me.
As of this moment I expect Jets to go 0-16 and Darnold looks terrible (not all his fault as he's been screwed over due to roster and coaching, but he does make several stupid decisions per game). Jets then have #1 pick and Trevor Lawrence decides to stay in college to avoid this shitstain organization. I don't know the timeline for the fifth year option decision and when is the latest they can make that decision, but I do know the Jets will make the wrong decision. Darnold signs with Pittsburgh/New Orleans/Tampa/Indy and resurrects his career at 25. Jets remain a shitstain winning 2-3 games per year for the next several seasons.
No, they don't that Darnold is automatically out if the Jets take Lawrence. Lawrence could struggle early or get injured in TC, Sam start and play so well with the new coach, that they decide to keep him and trade Lawrence. It's not likely, but isn't entirely out of the question, either. As far as waiting for FA, I doubt that most teams would do that. They know then that there would be a bidding war for Darnold and it would cost them a lot more to sign him. They also know that if they trade for him, they have him and they wouldn't be leaving it up to chance or having to outspend the competition, and even if they offer considerably more money, he could still opt to sign with another team.
Defecting to another team would be fucking sweet. I used to think that was blasphemous but who gives a shit anymore really. Right now I cheer for the Jets and whoever is playing against Brady, it's not very fun.
