OT - the next tier and trading down to the late teens

1. I think Jones & Cleveland are the tier 2 tackles. I prefer Jones and would prefer to move down and get him then taking any of the top 4 tackles at 11.

2. Sure hope so, as of now I have faith in JD. Him living up to his reputation and hitting a homerun this draft would be so beyond huge for this organization. I know that’s obvious but damn I hope it happens.

3. I have not heard of any rumors of Adams to Dallas for a 1st and 2nd. Please share if you have. There has been a ton of speculation by fans and Dallas makes sense as a trade partner but haven’t heard any actual rumors that they have even had conversations.

 

This is the best rationale for supporting the trading of Adams. If Douglas isn't good enough at drafting to make the picks offered of higher values than Adams provides, then Adams is wasted on this team. It's a disservice to him, and to the team to hang onto him. Moreover, we will have passed his highest return value as time goes on. I don't want to see him go (at this point), but if Douglas gets an offer too good to pass up he needs to take it.

As for the evaluations of other OTs, there's lots of them in the Draft Thread, easily found by their tag lines.

 

Jones is the best of the 2nd tier OTs. He is a perfect fit in the Jets' wide zone blocking scheme. He needs a good bit of refinement on his technique however, so probably cannot be counted on to be a day one starter and maybe not even his rookie season. Ezra Cleveland is the 2nd best LT 2nd tier prospect. He needs to get a lot stronger, and doesn't have ideal size. I wouldn't waste a draft pick on Jackson. IMO he's a finesse-type player and too passive. He also needs to get a lot stronger. I think Wilson is a good RT prospect, but not LT, and imo LT is what we need for insurance in case Fant proves to be unequal to the task of protecting Sam's blindside.

The problem with trading down to #16 is that Tampa Bay has pick #14 and needs OL help as well, especially now that Tom Brady will be their starting QB. They are likely to take the OL that the Jets would have taken at #16.

I have mixed feelings about trading Jamal Adams. He's a great player, but I don't like his prima donna attitude and drama-queen reactions. If he stays, I'll be fine, but I'll also be fine if Douglas trades him and gets two #1 picks or a #1, a #2 and #3 pick. If Douglas is picking at #11 and #17 and then at #48 and #51, then he could add his new LT at #11, add Justin Jefferson at #17, perhaps add Curtis Weaver at #48 and then add Michael Pittman or Chase Claypool at #51, then add another OL at #68 and a CB at #79. That would go a long way towards turning the team around and having a solid core for the future.

 

IMO, there is no rational conclusion for thinking that the Jets are going to get a player equal to the caliber of a Jamal Adams for whatever picks they get simply because any #1 below their spot just doesn't seem likely. Plus the fact that the player they do obtain from the Adams trade, they'll always be, not only over-scrutinized, but live in infamy for being the one replacing a future HOF.

The only possible players on D that I could see the Jets get in this draft that could have as much impact as Adams are Isaiah Simmons , Chase Young and Okudah. Can JD wheel and deal a way to get one of them for a swap? I would have to think long and hard on this if this is possible.

This little tidbit came from Walterfootball:

Here are some teams that could trade for Adams:

Philadelphia Eagles: It would be foolish to exclude Howie Roseman from being interested in trading for Adams. In fact, the Eagles might just be the favorites. They have the third-most cap space in the NFL, and they need to replace Malcolm Jenkins.

Cleveland Browns: Cleveland has the most cap space in the league. The team's weakness on defense is linebacker and safety, so Adams would fill a huge void at the latter position.

Detroit Lions: Detroit also has plenty of cap space. The front office and coaching staff needs to win this year, so the Lions could acquire Adams to provide a huge boost to the defense.

Dallas Cowboys: The Cowboys are in the middle of the pack in terms of salary cap space. They've needed safety help for a while, and I could see Jerry Jones offering quite a bit for Adams.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Darrelle Revis went from the Jets to the Buccaneers, so perhaps Adams will follow suit. The Buccaneers are suddenly one of the favorites to win Super Bowl LV with Tom Brady. They'd become the No. 1 favorite with Adams.

Indianapolis Colts: Safety isn't something that must be addressed, but the Colts, who are all in for this year, need someone to help contain Patrick Mahomes in a potential playoff matchup.

 

I don’t think Adams makes the bucs the number one favorite to win the super bowl. That’s a joke.

 

You can't base a trade on whether you draft someone as good or better than Adams, that's not the point. The point is that if you were offered a king's ransom - say a #1 and #2, or a #1 and #3 and next year's #1 or #2 - would the combined impact of those additional players be greater than the impact of one All Pro Safety? If Douglas is a good GM, the answer almost certainly is "Yes". If he's not a good GM, the team will continue to suck and Adams will demand a trade, but at that point his value will be less.

 

You made one point that really sticks out that I cannot accept with using the word "if". I can't risk losing potential HOF player based on "if Douglas is a good GM....." besides, you can be a great GM and still blow the pick. Adams is their best player - kings ransom means nothing if you don't draft at least one player that can be almost his equal.

 

Absolutely. But by the same token I don't think Brady can do it all on his own and making a case that the Bucs are automatic contenders. Adams can be a big contributor though.

 

Okay, but IF Douglas isn't a good GM, you're going to lose Jamal anyway. Very few "great" GMs - I can't think of one even offhand - blow high draft picks. If JD drafts guys that are really good, if not quite as good as Adams, but in positions of higher impact, then on balance they'll deliver more value than he does.

 

I don’t know the right answer for Adams. Don’t get me wrong, I love Adams, particularly for his fiery attitude and all out love for the game. He is a superior talent on the field, there is no argument there. He also makes the D better for his unbelievable range of play. My one major doubt is his propensity to childish outbursts over media chatter and the constant feeling disrespected by his management, coaches and everyone that doesn’t treat him like The top defensive player in the league.....which he is not. He then becomes a distraction to the team, the CS and the GM. Giving him a large contract will change none of that. It will be a constant source of concern.
JD needs to factor that in, because with two additional ones and a two in your pocket, one can quickly build a better team, even without Adams, with maybe a top pass rusher, a solid safety and a top corner to boot. I loved Revis early years as well, but his expectations became a serious impact to our team, particularly in the later part of his career. I wouldn’t want a similar situation here. If he wants to be a Jet for life both sides need to compromise some.

 

In a salary cap league it's very tough to have Adams be your best player and highest paid. It just doesn't work. If Dallas gives a haul of 2 or 3 real high picks you take it and run. You build depth in important positions and get cost controlled talent.

It's really a no brainer, if we hadn't drafted like shit forever this wouldn't even be in argument or Adams would take less to stay on a great team.

 

I'm in the keep Adams camp because he's very good and wants to be here. He's a net positive even at a top 5 salary.

 

How about we forget tackles and move down to 26-30 to get Nick Mangold 2.0 (Cesar Ruiz)?





https://www.nfl.com/prospects/cesar-ruiz?id=32195255-4941-5291-5447-fa1de6f9c62b

Ruiz (pronounced roo-EEZ) grew up in Camden, New Jersey, attending Camden High School before transferring to Florida's IMG Academy for his final two seasons. He left there as the top center prospect in the country, signing with Michigan to continue its tradition of great offensive-line play. Ruiz got on the field sooner than expected, starting five times at right guard and playing in 10 games overall as a true freshman, sometimes as a sixth lineman. He was a third-team All-Big Ten pick as a sophomore and second-team all-conference selection in 2019, starting all 13 games in the pivot each season. Ruiz's father was tragically struck down trying to help someone change a tire on the side of a highway when Cesar was just 8 years old.

Overview
Athletic and tenacious with the combination of skills and technique to fit into a variety of blocking schemes on the next level. Ruiz wins early with initial quickness and fast hands into first contact. He works to convert early advantages into wins. He's consistent in securing down-blocks and has the athletic traits to become a second-level factor. He'll give some ground to power rushers and needs help against wide-bodies, but the tape checks out. Ruiz has early starting potential and should develop into a good pro with guard/center flexibility.

Strengths

• Excellent snap-to-step quickness
• Waits for defender to declare before capturing and securing the block
• Consistent to run feet through double-teams and down-blocks
• Plays with bend and leverage
• Fluid on the go and can lead the charge on wide pulls and screens
• Tenacious demeanor from whistle to whistle
• Early into pass sets with good hand placement
• Compact, stiff pass punch with good arm extension
• Clear eyes to identify pre- and post-snap danger
• Consistent base width throughout pass sets
• Has feet and lateral slide to mirror anyone in front of him

Weaknesses

• Frame appears to lack desired width
• Could benefit from better acceleration and thump into first blow
• Needs to work at steering blocks into position
• Positional blocker with average face-up power
• Could struggle to set a shallow anchor against NFL bull-rushers

 

Saw a rumor from Schefter this morning on Twitter that SF would want to move their 13 or 31 overalls because their next pick is #156 and they want more draft capital. We could get 31 for 48 and our 2nd third rounder. The points line up pretty well.

 

1) I like Jones and Cleveland in the tier 2 OT group, both have things that will need to be corrected but could become very solid-good starters for the foreseeable future.

2) Trading down is def the best case scenario, this team is not 1, 2, or even 3 pieces away from being a playoff caliber team. Anytime you can trade back and get more premium (1st-3rd) picks you do that, as long as the value lines up.

3) I love Jamal and I hope he stays a Jet forever but if any team offers a kings ransom for him, i.e. multiple 1sts or a 1st & multiple 2nds, etc. then JD would be a fool not to take it. As much as I love Jamal, if we can turn him into multiple quality starters, I'm all for it. Imagine how much different this offense would look if Dallas did trade us their 1st and 2nd (at least) this year? The situation you laid out is a perfect example of how moving him could completely revamp this offense. Another scenario would be we take Wills/Wirfs/Becton/Thomas at 11 and then top WR (Ruggs maybe? or Jefferson) at 17. Again, you've just turned a top S into quality starters at OT and WR. Would any of us be upset about that?

4) I have seen nothing so far that makes me think JD is incompetent. I like his approach so far and am excited to see his first draft with the Jets!!

 

Why would we trade up and burn one of our 3rd round picks? We need more picks, especially in the top 100 picks, not less. SF is a complete team, could have easily won the SB, and yet they're wanting more picks. That should tell you something. Trading up is not a wise thing to do.

I wish that Tanny had never been our GM. He has ruined a generation of Jets' fans expectations in the draft and made them think that trading up is an acceptable, routine thing to do in the draft. It isn't. Trading up is something that the best GMs don't do unless they already have a complete team and believe they are one player away from getting over the hump, or have a desperate need for a FQB or edge rusher. They trade down and get more picks. Trading up shows that one doesn't know how to handle the draft. It shows that one has fallen in love with a player and think he is the only one who can possibly fill that position/need. It is being over-aggressive. It creates holes in one's roster and destroys depth. The Jets already have too many holes and are razor thin depth-wise. Trading up makes zero sense.

 

I never said to do it. I just said the points match up and it was addressing his point of Ruiz being available 26-30. The only thought of trading up this year for me would be to get to 20ish if Josh Jones is somehow on the board and we went WR at 11.

 

I understand doing Jamal a favor and trading him to a contender like Dallas, versus wasting his career on the Jets (see Mangold and D'Brick). But Dallas? DALLAS? We just beat Dallas. The Jets are the better team and we'd be doing him a favor by keeping him and NOT trading him to Dallas. Even Jamal got really upset at the Dallas rumors last year.

In fact with new lineman up front and a top WR (or two) the Jets are the favorite (in my book) to win the afc east. Bet it!

We already have a top 10 defense that will get better with stability at DB. Some help on the edge would be great too (see '49ers vs KC in SB). There's no Bosa on the horizon so Gregg W will have to get creative, and Jamal is probably the biggest part of that.

Now, if JoeD could trade Jamal for Bosa straight up? hmmmmmm.

edit: I know nothing about lower tier lineman

 

I know today is 4/20, but damn. In what universe are the Jets better than Dallas LOL