THE IMPACT OF INTERCEPTIONS: An overrated topic of discussion.

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by DefenseWinsChampionships, Apr 9, 2020.

  1. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    Interceptions are without question (and by far) the very worst way that you could ever possibly judge a Player on Defense by (I'll explain below).

    • Think about it; if we were to have ever judged a younger and prime Darrelle Revis based off of solely interceptions alone; he would not be considered as one of the greatest man to man coverage Cornerbacks of All-Tim (he just wouldn't be).

    One of Jamal Adams biggest criticisms have been due to a lack of turnovers (by Interception).

    However, and imo, it's moreso Marcus Maye's responsibly to watch the Quarterbacks eyes @ all times, as Marcus Maye is the one who's playing within deep zone coverage (out in Center Field) more times than not; which is why your FS usually will always end up with more career INTs than your SS did (due to just that one example above - as your SS does all of the dirty work within the trenches and protects the middle of the field with physicality and strength).

    Despite having a lower amount of INTs and being criticized for it, Jamal Adams does force and create turnovers; however his only job is not to focus on purely INTs (due to the fact that he's asked by his coaches to roam the entire defense while playing each and every possible position not named Defensive Line). He's extremely versatile.

    Adams has combined for 10 career Forced fumbles/Fumble recoveries, a total of 12 career defensive turnovers throughout a 3 year period thus far including two (2019) TD returns; a 25 yard forced fumble/fumble recovery/strip sack of Daniel Jones along with a 61 yard pick six returned the other way against N.E's backup to Tom Brady (an average of 4.0 turnovers per season, thus far).

    (when in comparison to the likes of Troy Polamalu who combined for 53 career turnovers at an average of 4.4 turnovers per session after 12 years or one of the best to ever do it in regards to creating turnovers in Ronnie Lott, who had a crazy average of over 7 turnovers forced per season ala it's almost impossible to create over 10 turnovers on a yearly basis out of an individual player, because it's not easy to accomplish; regardless of position)

    Yes.

    We've all loved impactful Cornerbacks and Safetys who've made a living and a name for themselves off of interceptions - however INT ability is only one attribute that they've got going for themselves - as it takes more than just a couple of interceptions (per season) to be considered as an all around and an overall great defensive football player; as you can not be known as being a one trick pony but yet still be considered as being overall greatness).

    That's what makes Lawrence Taylor the greatest to ever do it. He never picked off a lot of passers (wasn't within his job description) however he did feature the greatest combination of run stopping ability and pass rushing ability combined that we've ever witnessed (the opposite of a one trick pony).

    For a better example and this goes for anyone who's ever played the game, not just Revis himself.

    • You could take Darrelle's 4 primetime years of 2008-2011 (61 games/15 INTs) and if only looking into box score numbers for interception; Revis would've been looked at as being nothing more than a 3.75 INT per year type of player (who had 0 INTs in 2010) despite accomplishments such as becoming a 3x First-team All-Pro with 3 Pro Bowl selections throughout 2008-2011 (as we do not look back to the greatness of #24's legendary run between 2008-2011 in order to talk about and discuss his 0.24 INTs per game (you just, don't).

    I'm sorry but Darrelle Revis impacted his side of the field and his position way more than just "0.24 ints per game".

    If you were to simply focus on Darrelle's box score int numbers (easy to do), you would then get an inaccurate reading of his true dominance and all around greatness; because you wouldn't notice his never been seen before man to man coverage ability, you wouldn't take note of his tackling abilities as an outside CB who could takle like an MLB or Strong Safety, you wouldn't have appreciated how he studied WR's movements (pre-snap) as only a legend could, you wouldn't have given him credit for completely eliminating a QBs favorite target etc, etc and you would've also missed out on topic of discussions on how Revis would literally follow his #1 WR around (one on one and on an island) quite like no other, ever.

    (and none of the above had anything to do with Interceptions and/or what truly made #24 special, which was his coverage ability - along with everything else not named I-N-T's).

    • My only problem with judging a player within a secondary (regardless if FS, CB, SS) based off of INTs (alone) is that the All-time single season record for most INT's during a single season is held by Dick Night Train Lane - with only 14 - as a rookie (1952).

    However that was back in the 50's and the game has changed a lot since then, it's almost a completely different game, a record that may never be broken; because Quarterbacks of the 50's did not have the type of awareness or accuracy that we see as of today.

    (let's look into the last 20 years as being more recent (2018/2019 specifically).

    • The most INT's during a single season over the past 20 years has been 10 (0.6 per game) and the last time it was done was back in 2007, by Antonio Cromartie of SD.

    •Two years ago (2018) the league leader in INTs only had 7 and last year (2019) Gilmore had 6 INT'S as league leader; and Gilmore is not known as the NFL's #1 CB due to only 0.23 INTs per game; as he's respected for everything else he's able to do (multiple attributes that do not go unnoticed).

    Statistics and Accomplishments:

    Jamal Adams has played in a possible 46/48 games and has already recorded throughout (only 3 years of developing)...

    ✓ 273 Tackles (210 solo) as he's always around the football (90+ tackles per year).

    ✓ 28 Tackles for Loss behind the L.O.S (more tackles for loss than any secondary player within the league) and is the best DB @ playmaking within an offenses backfield.

    ✓ 25 passed defended (with only 3 TD's allowed) as a SS who can line up on the outside @ CB (1st career INT was on the outside), has lined up against quicker slot receivers @ both Nickel & Dime and was drafted as a key players to help defend against bigger TE's such as Gronk over the middle of the field.

    ✓ 23 QB hits and 12 QB sacks (both rank #1 of any secondary player within the league over 3 years) as he is without question the best blitzing Defensive Back in the game today.

    ✓ 6 forced fumbles (he can hit as hard as anyone).

    ✓ 4 fumble recoveries (always around the ball).

    ✓ 2 TD returns (can score off of turnovers due to athleticism - as some players have played entire careers without a TD return).

    ✓ 2 INTs (only) but he does have a pass coverage rating of 74.9; which ranks 7th highest of amongst all NFL Safety's (FS/SS) and even higher than a lot of NFL starting CB's on the outside.

    ✓ One of the very best run stopper in the game and has A+ excellence in pursuit (he just led a Gregg Williams led Defense that ranked (I believe) 1st in average yards per rush against, 1st in tackles for loss and 2nd in total run defense (I've watched him during his bowl game go sideline to sideline and hawk down LAMAR JACKSON for a loss behind the LOS; as his pursuit and closing ability is unreal).

    ✓ 1x All-Rookie team. 2x Pro Bowler. 2x All-Pro (that is very rare to see after only 3 years of play).

    • When talking about an individuals overall and all around defensive ability, I just do not feel and believe that it's right to focus on box score Interception numbers; while completely overlooking and ignoring everything else within the box score (goes for any defensive player, not just Jamal).

    Just as I hate to see Sam Darnold Quarterbacking behind historically bad offensive lineman along with a lack of receiver options...

    I'd also like to have an opportunity to see Jamal Adams surrounded by a couple of proven CB's (Trumaine Johnson wasn't the one) and an actual outside pass rusher to cause havoc on opposing QB's (haven't featured one since John Abraham of 2000-2005) before I notice topics of conversation surrounded by lack of interceptions, while overlooking everything else (cherry picking).

    In Closing...

    Last year we were robbed of having an opportunity to watch C.J Mosley within the trenches (while absolutely dominating his front seven) and it's hard to imagine just how fun it'll become to root for and watch a dynamic trio of Quinnen Williams, C.J Mosley and Jamal Adams throughout the middle of a Gregg Williams NYJ led Defensive attack.
     
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  2. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    Pt.2 (quick, short and to the point).

    I'm not willing to just watch us trade away a potential Hall of Fame and current First-team All-Pro (already the greatest JETs Safety of All-Time @ only 24 years of age) and all for more picks - in order to risk more 1st and 2nd round busts such as...

    Roger Vick (1st).
    Dave Cadigan (1st).
    Blair Thomas (1st).
    Johnny Mitchell (1st).
    Kyle Brady (1st).
    Anthony Becht (1st).
    Bryan Thomas (1st).
    James Farrior (1st round pick/traded awway too soon).
    Dewayne Robertson (1st).
    Vernon Gholston (1st). .
    Mark Sanchez (1st).
    Kyle Wilson (1st).
    Quinton Coples (1st).
    Dee Milliner (1st).
    CALVIN PRYOR (1st).
    Darron Lee (1st).
    Alex Gordaon (2nd).
    Terry Williams (2nd).
    Browning Nagle (2nd).
    Kurt Barber (2nd).
    Coleman Rudolph (2nd).
    Ryan Yarborough (2nd).
    Dorian Boose (2nd).
    Matt O'Dwyer (2nd).
    Alex Van Dyke (2nd).
    Rick Terry (2nd).
    LaMont Jordan (2nd).
    John McGraw (2nd).
    Victor Hobson (2nd).
    Justin Miller (2nd).
    Mike Nugent (2nd).
    Kellen Clemens (2nd).
    Vlad Ducasse (2nd).
    Stephen Hill (2nd).
    Geno Smith (2nd).
    Jace Amaro (2nd).
    Devin Smith (2nd).
    Christian Hackenberg (2nd).

    I'm just not.
     
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  3. ukjetsfan

    ukjetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I know you're going to get a lot of comments about the length of this post, but I love your passion! I'll read this later with a cup of coffee.
     
  4. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Here we go again!
     
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  5. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    I have read shorter novellas.
     
  6. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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  7. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    There's 2 reasons why I'd be open to trading Adams. One, he's given hints that he wants to play elsewhere before. Does he want to play for the Jets after his rookie contract expires? Two, he can fetch a haul of picks that can be used to build the offense and possibly corner/edge. If Adams is kept, I won't complain. He's a very good player for sure.
     
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  8. Brook!

    Brook! Soft Admin...2018 Friendliest Member Award Winner

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    Welcome back.

    Awesome first post. But, if you make your next responses short and on point that will be excellent. Also, allow people disagree with you and don't feel like you have to respond with 15 paragraphs to make the point you made earlier.

    You really have a lot of passion and I love that. Thanks again for this great first post. Take it easy rest of this thread and we are good. :)
     
  9. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    Interceptions can be good or bad. Generally good if the team you root for is on defense. Generally bad if the team you root for is on offense. If your punter is injured and it's 3rd and 25 and the int is 45 yards down the field it can be a wash.
     
  10. ukjetsfan

    ukjetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I think it's easy to agree with the statement that interceptions, taken in isolation, are not an accurate measure of a player's value to a team. I do, however, think the same could be said for most indovidual stats in what is the ultimate team game.

    Getting ten sacks seems to be a ticket to an outrageous contract in free agency these days, but over 16 games it isn't really that impressive, and a player can wreck an offense just by consistently applying pressure. Players can also luck into sacks. Ken Rose had three lucky sacks against the Giants in that incredible final game of the 1988 season, but that didn't make him a pass-rusher. He never had another sack the rest of his career (six more seasons).

    So individual stats can always be misleading. But I enjoyed the read and it passed some time in this crazy lockdown world, so thank you!

    For the record, I also don't want to trade a brilliant player (Adams) for a couple of tombola tickets...
     
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  11. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    Do people actually criticize Jamal Adams for not having more interceptions? I don’t believe I’ve ever heard that before.
     
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  12. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    Thank you, man.

    I myself can not stand fans who simply look @ box score sack numbers while judging the overall style of play and all around ability with regards to a Jadevon Clowney.

    Clowney is not a 3x Pro Bowler, 1x All-Pro (second-team) and on every NFL experts top 100 ranking list due to only 32.0 career sacks;

    It's because he's one of the most all around and overall versatile game changers and play makers within an NFL front 7 and has made a living behind the line of scrimmage as a nightmare against the run, the best edge setting OLB/DE within the game today and an absolute freak of an athletic pass rusher who must be double teamed and accounted for on every play (unlike a, Jordan Jenkins etc).

    Dating back to after his rookie year injury, over the past 5 years; he's recorded (including playoffs)

    Jadeveon Clowney: 249 tackles (186 solo), 85 QB hits, 72 tackles for loss behind the L.O.S, 33.5 sacks, 16 passes defended in coverage, 8.0 fumbles forced, 8.0 fumble recovered, 1 INT and 4 TD returns (along with playing in a possible 76/85 games (90%).

    To focus on nothing but box score sack and/or INT numbers (while ignoring everything else) is not only ignorant but it shows a lack of football 101 knowledge @ the same time (and if we only judged an OLB by sacks - we'd then look @ Lawrence Taylor as nothing more than a 0.73 sack per game type of player).
     
  13. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    I read your entire post. It's good but your conclusion is where we part company.

    "I'm not willing to just watch us trade away a potential Hall of Fame and current First-team All-Pro (already the greatest JETs Safety of All-Time @ only 24 years of age) and all for more picks - in order to risk more 1st and 2nd round busts such as..."

    The Jets have had plenty of great players and have rarely been competitive for a SB. If you assume Douglas is going to be the average Jets GM you're spot on. Let's enjoy Adams play and love our team and it's rare playoff appearance.

    If by chance, and it's a chance, Douglas drafts 2 to 3 really good players who will contribute to a championship team, your conclusion is way off the mark. There has to be value in the equation. Adams isn't Lawrence Taylor and even Lawrence Taylor had a great surrounding group including Harry Carson who's the Curtis Martin of Linebackers.

    The fact that we lucked into Adams at the expense of not drafting Mahomes or Watson needs to be considered. The option is not a 1st and 2nd round bust.
     
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  14. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    Didn't take long and not even about Adams or in a direct reply about Clowney :rolleyes:
     
  15. James Hasty

    James Hasty Well-Known Member

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    Five of your first round busts were solid starters:

    Brady
    Becht
    Farrior
    Sanchez
    Thomas (Bryan, not Blair)

    These players helped us get to AFC Championship games.

    Farrior and possibly Sanchez could have been so much more if they were drafted by other teams that could have utilized them properly.

    Brady and Becht were not as flashy as Johnny Mitchell but their blocking ability was off the charts.

    Bryan Thomas was more of a run stuffer than a sack master but he was a solid starter as well.
     
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  16. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    So which of these 'busts' is Douglas liable for?

    Or do we just pretend that nothing is ever going to change and we will continue to draft bust with every pick we make?
     
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  17. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    Dierking, yes. You have no idea.

    To the point where even after only his rookie season and made an NFL All-Rookie team; he still became labeled as nothing more than a "box safety" (who couldn't INT).

    It became so ugly to the point where I was getting attacked and called out for my Adams support...

    So I actually took the time to as a Jets fan to create an account on an LSU Fan Forum in order gather information, insight, knowledge along with an accurate assessment of the real Jamal Adams as both a football player and locker room leader...

    (and from actual fans who've actually watched him develop for 3 years as just a kid; in order to point out and prove just how little some of these know it all NY fans really ever knew in regards to our Jamal Adams.

    LSU fans within the SEC are crazed over Defense (historically speaking) and their greatest players of All-Time are beloved, respected and appreciated; not ripped apart with one line fillers (see for yourselves).

    This thread I created (below) was two years ago; and before the kid ever became and developed into a 2x Pro Bowler and 2x All-Pro NFL superstar too).

    "From an N.Y Jets Fan: As LSU alumni; your overall thoughts on Jamal Adams"?

    https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/lsu-sports/from-an-ny-jets-fan-as-lsu-alumni-your-overall-thoughts-on-jamal-adams/78699133/

    I'll go back and quote a lot of theur their comments here on TGG throughout this thread, but pay close attention to their overall thoughts regarding Jamal Adams as they spoke about his game with both knowledge and insight (and unfortunately, this was something that we were receiving here on TGG at the time and/or still to this day).

    If you appreciate reading about the real Jamal Adams; well then you'll absolutely appreciate and enjoy the link i posted (above) from LSU and SEC crazed alumni (before thanking me later).
     
    #17 DefenseWinsChampionships, Apr 9, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  18. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    Bro, you might want to consider gainful employment.
     
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  19. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    I've got an awesome career that I absolutely love and enjoy with a passion of 7 years now (went from an electrician) to a college advisor enrolling student's into school for degree level and certificate level programs (while getting paid according for my abilities) and the best part about it right now is that they've given all of our office location employees an opportunity to work from home; so over the past 3 weeks I've been not only working from my home (and staying healthy/safe) but also talking Jets football and getting paid to do so (at the same time). I have a deep passion for talking sports but nothing compared to the passion I have for working as a college advisor and enrolment specialist in order to provide for my wife, daughter and family; I absolutely love it (thnx you for your concern).
     
    #19 DefenseWinsChampionships, Apr 9, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
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  20. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
     
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