What pick burns you the most?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by NFLDayspast, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. NFLDayspast

    NFLDayspast Active Member

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    Sanchez never bothered me because again I saw the logic. They felt he would develop into a Neil O'Donnell type- a guy to handle the offense competently while the defense and run game did the heavy lifting. They were trying to follow the Bill Cowher philosophy and this made sense. It also almost worked with the back to back AFC championship games. To me this was actually the last time the team had any type of strategy that made sense regarding the draft. It them went to stretches and misses like Copeland, Milliner in Gholston which led to such embarrassments the Jets stopped having a plan and just took the best player available.
     
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  2. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. It wasn't Sanchez that was the problem, it was decisions like allowing the talent around him to leave and not replace it. Brad Smith is an example - he was a "jack of all trades" on offense and contributed more than most people (apparently including Tannenbaum and Rex) realized. But there were others. And then the decision to sign Tebow and create a QB controversy where none existed before. Moreover, that showed how little Rex & Co. knew about QBs and the offense.

    After that, they lost their way completely.
     
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  3. Section 336

    Section 336 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but drafting a HOF caliber player can never be considered a mistake, let alone a monumental mistake.

    Now if you want to say Chicago drafting Trubisky over him is a MONUMENTAL mistake I agree.
    Drafting a QB was not a sniff on the Jets radar and they never even worked Mahomes out, IT WAS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

    I am 100% sure, at this point he would look no better and have performed no better than Sam if the Jets drafted him. He doesn’t get pressured much but I have seen some pretty awful decisions from him when he does. He would be running for his life, have no quality receivers, no running game and tossed around like a rag doll. Add shitty offensive coaches to the mix and I can not see how anyone could not understand that the KC situation is world’s different than the Jets and probably about the best a first year starting QB could have ever possibly have.

    You need another 3-4 years to even begin to think he should be talked about with guys like Marino, Peyton and Brees.
     
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  4. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    ROFLMAO!

    Mahomes wouldn't have looked pedestrian anywhere. You obviously never saw him play in college or never looked at any of his tape.

    I'm sure that Reid helped him quite a bit, but he had talents that no one can coach: arm strength, amazing accuracy and touch from any arm angle, poise/pocket presence, the ability to improvise and extend plays, the ability to read Ds, and he was mobile. To think that the only place he could have succeeded was KC is ignorant imo. With talent like Mahomes has, he would have succeeded anywhere. He might not be as polished or refined, but he would be a top QB anywhere.
     
    #44 NCJetsfan, Jan 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  5. nyjetsmets89

    nyjetsmets89 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Coples. If he came out a year earlier he was projected to be a 4th-5th rounder.

    Devin Smith also had me yelling OY VEY the Jets become enamored with Smiths one trick pony deep speed just like Stephen hill’s
     
  6. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    While I agree with your comments regarding our OL, lack of quality receivers, our offensive coaches, and that he had a great situation in KC, imo your assessment of Mahomes is off base. You also overlook the fact that if Mac had taken Mahomes instead of Adams, perhaps he would have then viewed upgrading the OL and WR corps as a higher priority. If nothing else, he would have had 3 additional 2nd round picks over the next two drafts with which to address the OL and WR positions.

    Drafting a HOF SS is a mistake when you pass up a HOF QB, or even an elite QB, especially when you've lacked a quality QB forever.

    Just because drafting a QB stupidly wasn't on Mac's radar doesn't mean that it wasn't a colossal mistake. Drafting Hack in the 2nd round, and then assuming he would develop after showing nothing his rookie season, was monumentally stupid on Mac's part.
     
  7. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    That's the type of thinking that keeps teams like the Jets mired in losing for decades.

    I agree, which further cements my point that Macc was clueless, and why this was a monumental failure.

    Maybe, but I'll make the call now. If he doesn't get seriously injured, he's going to finish as one of, if not the, best QBs all time.
     
    #47 ColoradoContrails, Jan 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
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  8. Section 336

    Section 336 Well-Known Member

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    Just like drafting Sam a year later made addressing the OL a priority for Mac, It is pretty clear how Mac thought the OL should be built - drafting a QB one year earlier wasn’t going to change that.

    I have seen plenty of Mahomes and I am in no way discounting his ability, I do seriously think you are underestimating how much having a quality running game, Kelce at TE, a core of WR’s where your number 4 could be #1 on the Jets and one of the best offensive coaches in the league with a great scheme.

    Marino at best, Peyton at his best, Favre at his best, Brees at his best - all would not be lighting it up with this supporting cast, so why you think Mahomes is above those guys is beyond me. There is not a QB on the planet that would thrive in that situation. Yes, they all would make some fantastic plays (Just like Sam has) but they all would have hurried, forced throws that would look questionable. I really do not know but they all could look worse as we have never seen them have to play under duress like that. Nor have we ever seen anyone ever.
    Ken O’brien Got the shit beat out of him, but at least he had a running game and guys like Wesley Walker, Toon and multiple good TEs to throw to.


    And to go back to theme of this thread.
    Jamaal Adams is probably going to go down as the best player the Jets have ever drafted since Namath - and people want to say that burns them more than guys like Coples, Milliner, Hackenburg, Gholston Amaro, Pryor and going back more Ducasse, Blair Thomas, Mike Nugent, Jolley, Lam Jones, Robertson, Johnny Mitchell is fucking laughable.
     
    #48 Section 336, Jan 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  9. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to speak for NC, but no one said they - or Mahomes - would be "lighting it up" - only that Mahomes would've been a great pick, and IMO better than Sam. But the REAL issue is that Macc had to burn three top picks just to have CHANCE to get a top 4 QB, and he needed that QB in 2017, not in 2018.
     
  10. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    You're probably right that Mac's views on the OL would have kept him from drafting OL, but maybe not. If Mahomes got injured his rookie season or struggled, Mac could have changed his mind, especially with those 3 extra 2nd round picks. He certainly wouldn't have needed those to draft more DL or Ss, and he didn't really seem to be keen on drafting CBs, either. He may have thought that since he had 3 extra 2nd round picks, he might as well use at least one of them on an OL. Mac was willing to use a 2nd round pick on a WR (Devin Smith) so he could have easily used at least one, if not two, of those three 2nd round picks on WRs.

    The Jets rushing attack hasn't been that bad. It's been pretty good. The Jets' WR corps certainly hasn't been at KC's level and definitely needs upgrading, but Robbie may have been even better as Mahomes is more accurate than Sam and may have hit on more long passes. Mahomes would have had Herndon in 2018, and when healthy, Enunwa was a solid target.

    Mahomes is 4 years older than Sam, and more mature, developed, and had the benefit of his father being a professional athlete, which would have had him better prepared for handling being a professional athlete himself. I think Mahomes was far superior to Sam in decision making and reading Ds. Neither I, nor anyone else that I've seen has claimed that he would be lighting it up here, nor have we claimed that Marino, Peyton, Favre or Brees would be lighting it up here, but there's a big difference between "lighting it up" and being "pedestrian."
     
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  11. Section 336

    Section 336 Well-Known Member

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    Just to show that while Mahomes is a talent he is also a product of environment.

    341 out of 505. 319 out of 484
    4042 yards. 4031 yards
    26 TDS. 5 INTs. 26 TDS. 5 INTS
    104.7 Rating. 105.3 Rating

    One of those is Alex Smith in KC the year before Mahomes took over, the other is Mahomes this year.

    Reid’s system and KC’s talent was able to to win 11 games 3 times in a 4 year span and playoffs 4 years in 5 with Smith.

    I AM NOT TRYING TO SAY SMITH = MAHOMES Just that any competent qb will succeed in that scenario.
     
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  12. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    Such recency bias in this thread.

    Worst Pick, 1980: Johnny "Lam" Jones, WR. Jets team physician recommended against the Jets' primary target ANTHONY MUNOZ, who would be picked immediately after. If they weren't going to pick Munoz, they should have at least picked Art Monk

    Honorable Mention, 1971: John Mooring, completely forgettable OT, 11 picks before Dan Dierdorf, (HOF OT). Imagine if Riggins (Jets1st pick that year) and Namath had Winston Hill and Dan Dierdorf (who played both tackle positions) through the early and mid 70's. If nothing else changed, Dierdorf would have been paired with Marvin Powell staring in '78, taking the Jets into the early '80's.

    Dishonorable Mention, 1988: Dave Cadigan, OG, ahead of a lot of good offensive line talent, including HOF OG Randall McDaniel and HOF C Dermontti Dawson

    Worst Recent Pick, 2008: "Making Sure the Pats Don't Get Him" is the worst imaginable reason to pick anyone.
     
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  13. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I think you make a good argument, but I'll point out that you're comparing a QB who was 34 years old and 12 years experience to a guy who is 24 years old and 2 years experience.
     
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  14. J-Raw24

    J-Raw24 Well-Known Member

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    Alex Smith also had an amazing year before making it to the Chiefs. He was a top qb the year before and was hurt.
     
  15. mattyd99

    mattyd99 Well-Known Member

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    Pryor got me riled up the most recently as Cooks was still there and he was exactly the kind of WR we needed. Stephen Hill is another terrible one. Hated most of the Rex picks in all honesty.
     
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  16. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    There were a lot of question marks surrounding Mahomes especially because of the offense he came from. Arm talent is one thing, but a lot of people felt it was a reach at the time.

    He had generational arm talent. But he came from the gimmicky Air Raid offense that allowed Luke Falk to lead the nation in a ton of statistical categories too.

    Andy Reid is the real quarterback whisperer. He brought Donovan McNabb to 5 NFC championship games and a Super Bowl, and McNabb's career nose dived at the young QB age of 34 when he was disconnected with Reid.

    I don't think it's unfair to say that quarterbacks will perform differently in different situations. This holds true for varying degrees of success for quarterbacks. A couple of examples below.

    Steve Young
    Alex Smith
    Rich Gannon
    Drew Brees
     
    #56 Jonathan_Vilma, Jan 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
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  17. Passepartout

    Passepartout Active Member

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    All depends on the right kind of coach and the right kind of QB to have chemistry it seems.
     
  18. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    You quoted the wrong post.
     
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  19. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I remember that a lot of people thought it was a reach, but I wasn't one of them. IMO unless one already has a very good QB, when a QB with generational arm talent, has solid character, poise, work ethic, is mobile and can extend plays/create, he isn't a reach, and one should sprint to the podium to take him. Many of the people who discredited him, discredited him due to his being in the Air Raid offense. They failed to notice that he was unlike any of the other Air Raid QBs who had come out of Texas Tech. They all had rag arms like Luke Falk.

    Yes, Andy Reid is a QB whisperer, and it's not only completely fair, but is totally accurate to say that QBs will perform differently in different situations and their degrees of success will vary. I'm not saying that Mahomes would be as good here as he is with KC, but imo he would still be very good, and better than Sam, and would have made this team better.
     
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  20. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    The list of bad picks is endless...just a reflection of the poor Management and Coaching over the last 10 years

    If I had to pick the worst it would be passing on Patrick Mahomes...Sam is good and could be great but PM is GREAT already

    Now ..tomorrow..you better NOT lose to The Titans !!! And make us all look foolish ...hahahah
     

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