Exactly. That’s part of why the OL is arguably more important then a number 1 WR. 5 players that impact ever single offensive play that’s run in the game. 5 players that determine if the RB will have a hole to run through. 5 players that determine if the QB will have time to throw the ball. Having a top tier WR would be great, but a top tier OL is anything but useless without one.
How many actual points do OL account for?None. What good is a great OL if the opposition is putting 10 in the box bc they dont respect the passing attack?well weve seen it under Herm, Rex & Mangini. You asked if id take 5 players instead of one. But that doesnt mean im drafting 5 straight OL & passing up an elite WR prospect every time through. A good scout can find great OL in every round.A great WR is the more scarce commodity.
It is but I think Kurt's point is valid. We need an infusion of talent at receiver as well. Receivers getting separation vs. Cincy and dropping balls was as big of an issue as the bad offensive line play. We really just need to overhaul the majority of the offense. Crowder stays. Griffin stays (although he should be your #2 tightend), and Anderson can come back on a modest contract. Maybe one or two offensive lineman stay in the hopes that studs around them will improve their play. Bell stays unfortunately because of his contract. But the rest needs to be fixed.
I’m not arguing about the scarcity of good OL vs good WR, I’m arguing your assertion that a good OL is wasted without a top tier WR. Pretty much every season that the Jets have been competitive they gave up 2 or less sacks per game, meaning the OL played pretty well. We never had a Julio Jones, Amari Cooper, etc at WR. I would agree that a great WR can be the difference between a good and great offense, but the Jets have a long way to go before they get to good. When the QB has no time to throw the ball, and defense doesn’t have to respect the running game, a top tier WR is basically a luxury item.
I'm not sure that's completely accurate. Of the top 20 receivers in terms of catches this year, 6 were first rounders. Two are runningbacks (McCaffrey and Fournette). So four of the top eighteen are first round picks (Mike Evans, Hopkins, Julio and DJ Moore). In terms of yardage there's only 3 in the top 20 (Julio, Evans, Hopkins) and that's all receivers. The sweet spot seems to be the second round and third (Allen Robinson, Landry, Tyler Boyd, Keenan Allen, Chris Godwin, Cooper Kupp, etc.)
Im solely talking scarcity in terms of being elite level as prospects.Actual production in the league is another matter entirely. While i agree there are some great WR prospects still available in RD 2 there is still a very high bust rate among that second wave of WRs bc there typically is a big projection in there which is why they fell to begin with.Given the choice of a second round WR or OL i go OL. Building an OL isnt about plugging in a bunch of first rounders. They arent always the best option. It takes an architect & a keen eye to find 5 talented guys who fit an overall concept, compliment & Compensate for each other. Terron Armstead mightve been the best OL prospect the year he came out but he wasnt gonna go 1st round. Its a quirky positional group.
Im saying that its all relative maaannn Lol seriously. If you have legit explosive weapons on the outside & THEN spread the field like Gase likes to do it makes life a whole lot easier on the OL & the running game bc it keeps the D out of the Box AND allows you to execute a quick passing game. Neither of those things are happening right now. And im sorry we should be shooting for an all time great well rounded offense not just a great front 5. Itd be nice to start up front but if things fall a certain way this offseason we shouldnt be self defeating & not acquire a great WR just bc hes not a stud LT
If you look at this draft there are talent WR and OL available in the first 3 rounds. I am high on 3 of the first round WR. But I think a if we pick top that Juedy or Lamb would be a waste. Not because they are not of that talent level but because we could get nore traiding back.. lets say we pick at 5 for this. We trade that pick to Miami, Oakland, or Jacksonville and acquire either 2 first or someone else and get possibly a 1st, 2nd, 3rd we benefit more.. you can get what we need later and get more. Tee Huggins, Creed Humphrey, and other people like that have more value especially with more chances.
I think you have a misconception that anyone believes that an OL is all we need for a lights out offense. Many, like myself, want to START there, because the OL is terrible, and I happen to agree with the thought process that it starts in the trenches. OL and WR can be addressed at the same time, so there’s no real issue there to speak of. I still strongly disagree with your assertion that a good OL is useless without a top tier WR.
I believe he's not meaning its useless as much as its just not as affective. Most good teams build OL, QB, and WR1 together. The one space you don't need a top flight player at is rb. We have good TE, if Herndon get healthy and Griffin continues. But you need a WR that can stretch the field, come down with 50/50 balls, and run good routes. Without that defenses just play man on your receivers and stack the box. A stacked box makes the run game what it is now. You need to be good in all phase of offense to keep the defense true. If we can't pick up yards running we can't throw as effective. If we don't have a wr who can get open consistently in man coverage, we can't run because they stack the box.
I think it makes it a lot harder. Look at how much the Colts have struggled to move the ball at times this year with Hilton down (and dropping balls to lose games *cough* Texans game) and Funchess done for the year. They've run the ball very well and Brissett is protected and decent enough to generate offense. Yet you watch their games and he will have all day to throw and can't find anyone open anywhere on the field. It's painful.
Colts are probably a playoff team if Hilton and Funchess are healthy. Thats a pretty good example. It proves you need more than a good QB and OL to make it for sure.
I don’t understand what part of my post you’re replying to here, but it’s cool. I haven’t commented on what it takes to build a great offense. I take issue with your use of the word ‘useless’ regarding the OL/WR thing because it’s easily disproven.
Honestly they should be a playoff team even without them. Vinatieri is kicking at 68%. They beat the Steelers and Chargers if he isn't missing kicks 30 feet to the left, and are securely the 6th wild card. But the Colts are really built well everywhere. They're mostly coached well although Reich has burned two mindless timeouts in both the Dolphins and Texans games. Even still, they struggle the move the ball and would be way better if Zach Pascal wasn't their #1 target most games. That sort of supports both sides of the arguments though. 10 out of 12 of their games have been decided by one possession. They'd be 10-2 if they had consistently better wide receivers, because their offensive line is that good.
I don't know about that. Again both are equally valuable. Let's look at Oakland. They have a good QB and easily top 10 Oline. But with Brown being brown they don't have a top WR. This year they may not make. Granted they are better than us, but they lost to us. You can have a good OL or WR1 but to be good you need both.
Thats all kickers over the past few years. The new field goal rules have some effext obviously . But we would have a better record with a better kicker as well.
Ideally we would replace the entire OL, but that's not going to happen. We're going to have to do it in stages, hopefully with this offseason being a MAJOR stage. So while it's not realistic to expect we're going to use all of our picks on OL, we'll probably use two of the higher ones on it. That means a high pick could be used for a stud pass rusher or WR. As badly as we need that edge rusher, we need a legitimate star on offense for Sam to throw to. Adding such a player has a leveraging effect on the OL and the rest of the offense, offsetting the fact that we can't have an instant All Pro OL. At this point, not knowing who will be a FA and who will be in the draft, it's hard to say for certain how they should go about filling that shopping list. It may be that this stud WR could be signed as a FA,or that one or more OL could be too, and either or both of these events would drastically alter the draft. I would be shocked if Douglas doesn't fill one or more of these holes in FA. So when it comes to the draft, if a superstar WR prospect is there for the Jets first pick, that might be the best move, it certainly wouldn't a dumb move. Personally, I'm hoping they're in a spot where teams want to trade up in return for a lot of high picks. I would sacrifice being able to take a "can't miss" WR in return for being able to take a lesser, but nearly as good one plus another OL, keeping mind the fallacy that there is really ever a "can't miss" prospect in the draft - it's always a gamble. But one way or the other, the OL needs massive upgrading, and the receiving corps needs a stud.
A quick look at it we could do the below. Sign RT Jack Conklin or RT Germain Ifedi - $11 million/year Draft RG in mid rounds/lower level free agent for $3-4 million Draft C Tyler Biadasz in the second round Keep Alex Lewis at left guard/mid-round guard to compete Sign LT Anthony Castonzo - front loaded $15 million per year. Cuttable after year 2 Assuming the $75 million in cap space (especially after cutting Roberts, Winters) we still have $45 million in cap space. To work with. Subtract $25 million for Jordan Jenkins, Robbie Anderson, Brian Poole and misc. Jets free agents in slush funds and $10 or so million for draft picks and we can still sign one more player (mid range corner or edge). Retain Harrison and Shell on minimal contracts as backups. Looking at it honestly too. I don't think there's anyway we have the money or want to spend the money to keep Poole. He's going to get a big overpaid deal. That's aggressively done and frees up our first round pick for WR/edge. The cornerback market is going to be extremely competitive this year. Which is a good and bad thing. There are a couple players that might be undervalued because there's a surplus, and signing corners is like throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. Since they're so inconsistent year to year.
Problem is Biadasz on all account won't be available in the 2nd. Every mock I have seen shows him gone before our 2nd round pick. Also this assumes all those tackles don't resign or sign somewhere else for a lot more. Highly unlikely. I think our best bet would be to try for those tackles and/or go for the defensive players such as Shaq Barret, Clowney, or Marcus Peters. Shore up some holes in free agency. All of them would be good fits here and eliminate problems predraft. Then in the draft, if we can find a good trade partner, trade back. Hopefully into the middle of the first while picking up more picks. More picks = more chances at talent. Target OL and WR both at the top then bpa later in the draft. Fill our holes first then take people to develop. Most people assume since those are the "Top prospects" they will work the best. Simply untrue I think Humphrey will be better for us than Badiasz. I don't think less of Badiasz he's a solid player but he benefits a lot from his guards. We don't have guards. Same is true at WR. I think Lamb and Juedy are both insanely good. But I think Higgins + another first or second outweigh how good they are.
