The fragility of Bless Austin's knees are always going to be a concern. Having said that, if he can stay healthy he looks like a kid that can really play at a position of need. At the very least if he can stay on the field the rest of this season and continue to perform at his current level then going into this off season signing/drafting 2 CB's may not be necessary...
I totally agree with your post, but one small correction: Daniel Brown was not signed two weeks ago. He was signed on or around March 18 by Mac.
He gets credit for Darnold, but by the same token, instead he could have had Patrick Mahomes instead of Adams, and had our #1 and 2 - #2 picks in 2018 and our 2019 #2 pick, which would have gotten us the center we needed. We could have just as easily wound up with Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen or Josh Rosen after trading all those 2nd round picks to move up, so Mac shouldn't get too much credit for Darnold.
I'm in no way am I arguing Mac was a good GM. There is a difference between that point and the point I was making. Which, is, Mac wasn't the worst GM to walk through those doors. Mac wasn't the greatest. He did several good things for this team. He did more bad, which is why he was canned. He did more good than you give him credit for as well. My only point. I'm being fair and unbiased as much as I can. I don't feel you are.
Hindsight doesn't take away from reality. The reality is, he drafted, Darnold. He made the moves to do so. If Darnold becomes a star for us, Mac will absolutely get credit for that. As he should. Just because he didn't pan out the way we all wanted, doesn't mean we have to be bitter about the things he did actually get right. I'm grateful it wasn't a total disaster like Idzik.
Of course he did SOME good.... you do know the blind squirrel and the broken clock, right? With 7 round drafts, UDFA, and tons of cap space, its hard not to do SOME good. Not to mention, he was picking top 6 in every goddamn draft, and even one of those was a bust (not Gholston level, but certainly a bust nonetheless at 6). The jury is still out on Q, and i sincerely hope he succeeds but so far??? Not good.... Someone mentioned it before in this thread... in his time here, he has the least number of draft picks still in the NFL. More than anything else, probably the most defining stat for a GM, and he is the WORST. If that is not the definition of someone who was a disaster, i don't know what is.
I was just reflecting on this and imagining if we had traded all those picks and ended up with Rosen. Which probably wasn't that far fetched from happening. My gosh what a pickle we'd be in then assuming Rosen hadn't magically flourished in a different set of circumstances. At least in our current situation this year may be wasted but the QB is securely in place and our OL can be fixed as time goes by.
I look at the way the roster is constructed as a whole and the entire body of work. And it was overall terrible. From 2007-2012 the Browns drafted Joe Thomas, Joe Haden, Mitchell Schwartz, Alex Mack, Josh Gordon, TJ Ward, Jordan Cameron, Buster Skrine, and Eric Wright. Some really good players, and some role players. They had one winning season and the next 5 they had 4 or 5 wins. I doubt anyone felt as though the rosters were constructed well. Asset management and money placement and what positions you use on your draft picks is just as important as anything. Maccagnan selected DT, 4-3 OLB, Safety, QB, DT. Obviously only the last three are still on the roster. Think about this. Maccagnan's best plan heading into the season, post draft and free agency was to head into the season with a Trevon Wesco/Daniel Brown combo at tightend until Herndon came back, Josh Bellamy as the next man up at receiver, and Edoga I guess as the swing offensive lineman. Our current GM, and it remains to be seen whether he'll be a good one or not, had to add a wide receiver, tightend and guard in training camp. Think about that. There was zero contingency for any of these scenarios. If a receiver went down as they did, the next guy up was a guy who has 14 catches last year in his fifth year in the league.
Damn right--If the Giants had not taken Barkley, we would have paid a first and 3 seconds for Allen, Rosen or possibly Barkley. Can you say king's ransom?
I'm not bitter about the things he did right. I'm bitter about all the things he did wrong. Yes, he did some things right, and I have actually gone over board over the years defending him and pointing out the things he did well. I'm done with that. He was better than Idzik, but that's saying nothing, and was one of the worst GMs the Jets have ever had. He had more opportunities to do great things to help this team, and basically screwed the pooch on most of them. The reality is however, that he did too few things well, that he had no clue how to build a team, which positions should be priorities, or after the BPA who fell to him in the 1st round he either didn't prioritize or know how to go about addressing needs. I didn't say that hindsight takes away from reality, so please stop with the strawman argumment, but the reality is that we easily could have been looking at taking Josh Rosen or Josh Allen. The reality is that if he had taken Patrick Mahomes as he should have, he didn't have to trade up in 2018, and he'd have had all those picks to address other positions. The reality is that he didn't make the OL a priority. The reality is that he didn't make edge rusher a priority. The reality is that he didn't make the offense a priority. The bottom line is that in spite of his years spent in scouting, he had little or no clue how to evaluate talent, little or no plan for building the team, and had little or no understanding about the importance of working with his HC to get the right kinds of players to fit his scheme/systems. I'm grateful that he wasn't a total disaster like Idzik, that we wound up getting Darnold as a result of his trade up, and for the precious few other decent players he added to the team. He made some good trades, but who knows how many other trades he missed out on or blew because he was too slow to act or too conservative. For one, he missed trading up for Laremy Tunsil in 2016. I believe that he could have traded down in 2019 and quite possibly other drafts and didn't. The reality is that Mac passed up on the following players over his 5 drafts that we could have had and drafted a bunch of crap instead. I can even give him a pass for 2016 since it was such a sorry draft talent-wise, and we weren't in position to draft the few good players there were. The opportunities for trading down were probably nil and it may have cost too much to trade up. 2015 - 1st Round - Todd Gurley, Trae Waynes, Andrus Peat, Melvin Gordon, Marcus Peters, & Bud Dupree. 2nd Round - Preston Smith, Benardrick McKinney, Eric Kendricks, Mitch Morse, Ronald Darby, Rob Havenstein, and Ali Marpet. 3rd Round - Tevin Coleman, Duke Johnson, Eli Harold, Jordan Hicks, David Johnson, Henry Anderson, Ty Montgomery, Steven Nelson, and Trey Flowers. 4th Round - Jamison Crowder, Kwon Alexander, and Grady Jarrett. 5th Round - Stephon Diggs, and Jay Ajayi. 2016 - 1st Round - Kenny Clark, William Jackson, Germain Ifedi, and Artie Burns. 2nd Round - Cody Whitehair and Mackenzie Alexander. 3rd round - I like the Jordan Jenkins pick, but it's possible that Mac could have traded down in the 2nd round and taken Yannbick Ngakoue. Other good players that Mac could have taken were Kendall Fuller, Jacoby Brissett, and Graham Glasgow. 2017 - 1st Round - I love Jamal Adams, but the right pick would have been Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson. Other possibilities were Christian McCaffery, Marshon Lattimore, and Malik Hooker or possibly trading down and there were quite a few other good players. 2nd Round - I like Marcus Maye, but taking safeties back-to-back probably wasn't the wisest move. Curtis Samuel, Dalvin Cook, Sidney Jones (hasn't stayed healthy but has a ton of talent), Ju-JU Smith-Schuster, Dion Dawkins, Taylor Moton, and Raekwon McMillan. 3rd Round - Chris Godwin, Kareem Hunt, Pat Elflein, Dan Feeney, and I think Alvin Kamara, but I may be mistaken about that. 4th Round - Samaje Perine, Carl Lawson, Tarik Cohen, Marlon Mack, and George Kittle. 2018 - 1st Round - 1st Round - Quenton Nelson, Roquan Smith, Mike McGlinchey, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Jaire Alexander, FrankRagnow, Billy Price, Isaiah Wynn, DJ Moore, Calvin Ridley, Hayden Hurst, and Sony Michel. 2nd Round - Braden Smith, James Daniels, Courtland Sutton, Kerryon Johnson, and Derrius Guice. 3rd Round - Orlando Brown, and Arden Key. 4th Round - I'm happy with Chris Herndon. You can say that I cherry picked names,and to some extent that's true, because Mac could have taken players I didn't name who have been busts or not very good, but many, if not most of the players I named were players that many of us here liked and wanted, would have filled needs and were great prospects. If Mac had taken Mahomes in the 1st round of 2017, he could have added any of Samuel, Cook, Smith-Schuster, Dawkins, Moton, Godwin, Hunt, Elflein, Feeney, Kamara, Cohen, Mack, and Kittle and the offense would have been much better. Then in 2018, he could have pretty much finished overhauling the OL with the exception of the LT spot. He had tons of opportunities to take OGs, Cs, WR, RBs and TEs to add to Mahomes, and there were quite a few good CBs and LBs as well. One would think that surely he would have added at least one or two of those players, but no, not a single damn one. Fuck Mike McCagnan. We could have had one of the most talented rosters in the NFL if he had even been average or slightly above average. Instead, he sucked! I hope he never works in football again! I'd like to shove a Starbucks up his ass.
Sorry, not convinced. NC blew your argument out of the water with his last post, and his posts are always objective. I really believe Mike MacCagnan did/does not understand BASIC football. He really doesn't. Twice he used very high picks to draft a defensive lineman, when his coach played a 3-4 defense--it is a waste of a high pick to draft a DL that high just to occupy blockers, which is what 3-4 DL do. MacCagnan ANNOUNCED at his initial press conference in 2015 that he will build his OL with low round picks and free agents--worked out well, right? He drafted Hackenberg in round 2, when most forecasters had him as a 6th-7th rounder. But, if you want definitive proof of his ignorance, look at his stupid 2017 draft--In that one draft, he selected FOUR DBs, THREE receivers but ZERO offensive lineman or defensive lineman. Does he think the game is played exclusively outside the numbers? And don't tell me those were the only areas of need--the jets had just finished 5-11 the previous year. As I posted earlier, the jets have the fewest players drafted by their own team on their roster than any other NFL team from 2015-2019 (MacCagnan's watch). In my book, that makes him the worst GM in the NFL 2015-2019.
I don't completely disagree with you. He could've been a lot better for us. He could've been a lot worse. I feel like people are coming at me like I'm pro-Mac. I'm not, I've always been mostly neutral with him, even up to his firing. The only issue I had with the Jets firing Mac was the timing of it. Allowing him to draft and spend all of our cap in FA, just to get canned after. That was beyond stupid to me. Hindsight is what it is though, living in the past is a dangerous game to play as well. That's where depression lies, so I don't stick around the past too much, leads to grief and bitterness. So, that's why I am choosing to look at the positives of what Mac has done for this team, while trying to find some hope in the future. The past three games for the NYJ has helped with some of that, I still remember the bad taste I've had in my mouth for the first half of this season though, so It's a battle that I have going on within myself as a fan. So, to make that a little easier, I'm trying to look at the good that is. Mac isn't excluded from that for me. Yes, he could've made some better choices, some of your list is personal preference though. For example, I like that he double dipped at Safety. Others can disagree but I can easily see Maye and Adams being an elite tandem for us moving forward with this team. Which is a fantastic thing to me. I'm okay with how that played out. I'm even okay with not taking Mahomes or Watson because I'm not confident either of them would've fit into what we are doing as a team, especially when they were drafted. I think Mahomes benefited greatly from being drafted by a coach like Andy Reid. Someone who could get the very best from his QB. I'm not confident we would have done that, matter of fact, I don't think he would be anywhere close to the player he is today with the NYJ. It's hindsight. Projection. Could've, Should've, Would've... It doesn't get us anywhere at the end of the day. So, I am basing my argument, not for, Mac. Just for the good that did come because of, Mac. That's it. Drafts - 2015 - Disaster 2016 - Lac Edwards, Brandon Shell, Jordan Jenkins, Robby Anderson 2017 - Adams, Maye 2018 - Forlorunso Fatukasi, Chris Herndon, Nathan Shepard, Sam Darnold 2019 - Bless Austin, Blake Cashman, Chuma Edoga, Quentin Williams This list isn't earth shattering. I'm not claiming that at all. Some of these names are still a wait and see status, especially the 2019 draft class. However, there are some good quality players to move forward with there. It doesn't hurt, It's nice to have, and hopefully they will all contribute for us in the next phase of this team. I'm grateful to have some quality players in each draft outside of 2015. Damn that was a bad draft class for us. Eek. Then, like you've mentioned, he made some quality trades along the way as well. Had some quality FA pickups. People complain about the contracts he handed out but outside of True, I didn't think he really gave out any bad contracts overall. I thought he was smart enough to have an out in almost all of them and he got a bargain in others. Overall, not too hateful. Just like anything though, you can use the magic of hindsight to pick it all apart. There is always something that could've went better, you can say that with almost everything in life though. I don't necessarily agree with players you would've preferred in some cases over who we actually have. Some I do, some I don't. Preference and all. I do agree that we could've set ourselves up better in prior drafts to allocate more draft capital to other positions, to advance the potential and future of this team further than we currently stand. You and I aren't usually too far off from our stances with this team. In this case, you clearly think the cons outweighed the pros when It comes to, Mac. I agree. Completely. I think we just disagree on the quality of the job overall that he provided this team, I think he did better than most seem to think. For me, it's not a disaster, unless nothing good came from it. In his case, I think he did do a lot of good. Problem was, he did A LOT more bad. That's all. Just perspective. Mine is just slightly different than some others on here, from my vantage point anyway. Always enjoy debating/talking with you, Sir.
That's the thing though. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. It's already done. I'm merely conveying my perspective and how I feel in regards to the overall job Mac did. He didn't "blow me out of the water" because frankly, I agree with most of the things he mentioned, and the rest was from a place of perspective. His post is partly subjective though, considering he has a personal belief in the players we should've or could've taken instead of the players that were taken. I'm the one literally saying that I didn't think Mac was a good GM, but, I am still capable of reflecting on the good he did bring to this team. I'm not downplaying it just because I didn't think he was a quality GM overall. You can point out the flaws, I get them, I do. I'm simply pointing out the good that was there, that I can see, from my perspective, as well. We can nitpick it to death to we are blue in the face, I will continue to agree he could've done better but did good as well. You can continue to point out nothing but the flaws that happened, while I also agree. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm not saying you guys are wrong in those areas (completely), I'm just highlighting the other aspect of it all as well. That doesn't make him the worst GM in football. It does mean he fucked up though. I have wanted him to trade back in 17 and 19 from my brief recollection of myself, it didn't happen. It should've happened. He should've been more decisive in that category. ...but again, I agree to an extent, just not completely. Listen, to me, he isn't the worst GM simply because he did bring quality players to this team. He did find some potential diamond in the rough players, and he found us a potential FQB along the way. Did he do it the right way? No. Could he have made life easier for all of us by making different moves and maximizing our draft and potential. Yes. You can agree with those things and still not come to the conclusion that he was the worst GM in football. I just see a bigger pictured story than what you are trying to make it out to be. In My Opinion.
I always enjoy our discussions as well. I'm sorry if my post came across as if I was "coming at you." That wasn't my intent at all. I don't think we're too far apart in our stances. I think that Adams and Maye are a great safety tandem too, it's just how they came together. IMO even when Mac wound up with a result, he went about it in the wrong way and imo prioritized the wrong positions. Yes, we had a need at S, but S isn't nearly as important as QB, edge rusher, OL or CB. There have been some pretty good safeties available in FA that Mac could have signed. Yes, hindsight can be magic, but the thing is, for some of us, it's not all hindsight. Many, if not most, of the players I listed, I liked in their respective drafts and hoped that the Jets could draft them or at least some of them. So I wanted them before the draft and thought that they would be great players and great fits for the Jets. You're right also that it's not wise to spend too much time focusing on the past. If we don't focus on it at all, we don't learn, and we're likely to repeat mistakes, but if we spend too much time on it, we can become bitter or depressed. I like all the players you listed above except maybe Edoga and Shell, but root for even them. I hope they all succeed and have good careers with the Jets. I would have rather drafted Josh Allen this year rather than Quinnen Williams, but like everything else with Mac's moves, it is what it is. It's up to Douglas to build upon this and develop a great roster. His work is cut out for him, but it's perhaps not quite as bad as we thought it was just a few weeks ago. Mac wasn't a total disaster, but came pretty close, too close for my comfort, particularly on the heels of Idzik, Tanny, and Bradway. It's just frustrating to still be in rebuilding mode, when just a few better picks/decisions by Idzik and Mac would have us already competing at a high level. It's also frustrating that every bad decision he made led to more bad decisions. Because he took Hackenberg in 2016, he passed on Mahomes. Because he passed on Mahomes, he had to trade up to get a QB in 2018. Because he had to trade up to get a QB, he had use many picks trading up, and as a result we missed out on OL, WRs and CBs that could have really helped this team that we could have taken with those picks. I agree that Mahomes developed quicker and better under Reid than he would have here, but I believe that he still would have been good here and would be better than Darnold. He has too much poise, ability and arm talent not to have. Even if we gave him a total pass for 2015 and 2016, the team Mac could have assembled between the 2017 and 2019 drafts and FA would have been amazing. In 2017 if Mac had taken Mahomes in the 1st, traded down in the 2nd, garnering an additional 3rd and 4th round picks and taken one of Dawkins or Moton, taken either Chris Godwin and Pat Elflein or Kamara and Elflein, and then in the 4th taken Mack and Kittle. Then in 2018 he could possibly have traded down adding more picks and taken Jaire Alexander or stayed put and taken Minkah Fitzpatrick or Roquan Smith, then taken James Daniels or Courtland Sutton in the 2nd, Orlando Brown in the 3rd and Herndon in the 4th. This year he could have taken Josh Allen in the 1st, Greg Little in the 2nd and even if he missed on the rest of his picks this year and in previous years, our offense would have been dynamite, we would have an elite edge rusher, and wouldn't have need to use FA $s on Bell and Mosley and could filled a lot of holes with all those $s. QB - Mahomes WR1 - Chris Godwin WR - Courtland Sutton TE - George Kittle and Chris Herndon LT - Greg Little and Beacham RT - Orlando Brown OG - Dion Dawkins C - Pat Elflein Edge Rusher - Josh Allen MLB - Roquan Smith Even if you preferred other players, the point remains that our offense could have been dramatically different, our D could be even better than it is now, and we'd have had a lot more cap space to use to fill other holes or carry over to next season. Oh well, it's fun to think for a moment what might have been. As always, thanks for the civil discussion. Happy Thanksgiving!
holy cow this may be legible on a 32 inch PC screen but I literally only read one line and vomited Is this a good post? Any good Jets info? If yes I’ll zoom in and read during a good shit thanks guys
Are you using a fuckin Nokia? If you are viewing it on a phone that was made in the last decade, it would be converted to a "Mobile Version" and there would be no need for the "zoom".
I have bad vision- genetics I use an iPhone X plus PS do you feel the need to curse at me because I have poor vision? Is this how you bully people? Do you punch kids in wheelchairs?
