That's exactly what I'm talking about. Matsui is worth more runs to the Yankees than Cabrera. IMO, he is not as valuable long term, and his fielding is not just poor, it's detrimental. The fact is, you and I have totally opposite opinions on the value of offense to defense. It's really not worth arguing, since neither of us will ever budge from our stance. In our own minds, ourselves are the ones who are right, and the other is totally off. Let's just agree to disagree on the issue. You know a lot more about the farm than I do. I have no idea what kind of talent is down there, and quite honestly, I get more info about the guys in the system from you than anywhere else. (I didn't even know who Hughes was until you started discussing him over the end of the season.) Again, it's another guy I have no clue about. I understand this guy is talented, but Farnsworth was a very good closer before becoming a setup man too. I can't recall how you feel about him, but there were a lot people complaining about him this year. Just because a guy is a good closer doesn't mean he will translate into a quality setup man. (See Gordon.) The thing is, he wouldn't push anyone down. If he did, I would agree with your point. The thing is, at best, he moves Farnsworth down an inning, and gives Proctor one less to work every day. If Proctor gets traded, that blows up completely. I doubt that scenario even plays out that way. All Joe will do is rotate Gonzalez and Farnsworth to preserve Farnsworth's back strength. And if this guy already has tendinitis issues, what happens when his health fails too? As I've said, if we are going to trade Melky, I want it to be in a deal for a starter who can at least come in as the #3. Of course it would have to be a package deal, since there's no way Melky evaluates to top 3 pitching, but if he were to be involved in a trade for say, Dontrell, I would be happy with that.
That's going to be incredible. Can you imagine the tv numbers for that game in Japan? It'll be like a National Holiday in Japan. Matsui/Matsuzaka/Igawa all on the field in the same game. WoW.
Melky is the man. Keep him, let him grow develop and become the great player he is going to be, and trade godzilla to the highest bidder. Extend Bernies contract for another year....im out.
Matsui isn't going anywhere. The contract is too large. I can't see any team taking him off our hands. It's not like he's 25.
I have no problem with you having an opinion, I'm just trying to understand it. You admit Matsui is worth more runs to the Yankees, so doesn't that make him more valuable? Cabrera is worth a couple more runs defensively, but Matsui is worth a much larger amount offensively, thus, Matsui is more valuable overall. We can agree to disagree, I was just unsure what your point was. I guess we just differ here, too. I'd rather go with the best relievers available to us, you'd rather have a "system" of middle relievers -> set-up -> closer.
Well like I said, I don't value just run prodcution as valuable. Our lineup doesn't need Matsui in it. It's strong enough that if Melky just hits the way he has, he is more than an adequate #9 hitter. The runs he would save on the field would more than make up the runs he doesn't produce at the plate, IMO. That's why I say we should just agree to disagree. We make quite opposite valuations of players. Yeah, that's my preference. A system where we know that Proctor pitches in the 7th against a tough righty part of a lineup. Then another guy who can come in for more than one batter against lefties (unlike Myers.) Having the "best players available" has been exactly why we haven't won a title in over half a decade. ARod, Damon, Matsui, Abreu, Giambi. None of these guys have brought a championship to us. It's hard to argue that they don't have the talent. Somtimes talent just isn't enough. I just look back at our success. When we had Stanton and Nelson filling in the middle. Then somone setting up, then our closer shutting the door (whether Wetteland, or Mo.) Joe's old formulas used to work. The big problem is that he has tried to continue to use them with players who don't fit into the system him formulas are based on. I wouldn't be fully opposed to having another closer in here, but I would rather Cashman was trying to wheel and deal for more critical needs. (Though it seems like Igawa closes out the rotation needs.)
That's fine, but logically and mathematically, your way of thinking would hurt the team. It all comes down to total runs (produced offensively and saved defensively), the number of runs Matsui produces instead of Melky offensively, is greater than the number of runs Melky saves defensively over Matsui. I think the difference here is that you're thinking of runs only as an offensive stat when I say Matsui is worth more "runs", that seems to be the only explanation (unless your fandom of Melky is such that you want to see him play over Matsui regardless of the fact that it would hurt the team, which I doubt since you seem like a person who is a fan of the uniform before being a fan of just one individual player). This is factored in both offensively AND defensively. Melky is a better defensive player, without question, but the number of runs he saves defensively in place of Matsui is not nearly as large as the number of runs Matsui produces offensively in place of Melky. The reason the Yankees haven't won is because they haven't had the best players available in their rotation. It's silly to have a "system" just because it looks good on paper, instead of trying to get the best players possible. You certainly wouldn't rather have a starter who pitches 210 innings with a 100 ERA+ over a starter who pitches 180 innings with a 120 ERA+. But because he eats up more innings, he may fit a "system" better than the other guy. Before he came to the Yankees, Stanton had 1 year of experience as a closer. Just like Gonzalez. Stanton was just as much a "closer" as Gonzalez is. I'm not quite sure where this whole "converting a closer into a set-up man = failure" thing came from, and it's not even like Gonzalez has been a long time closer. He's 28 and has only been a closer for one season (including minor leagues). Oh yeah, and Gonzalez is better than Stanton was before becoming a Yankee. Joe's formula used to work because Stanton and Nelson were great, and both were set-up men. Stanton was a set-up man who had one year of closing experience when he came to the Yankees, just like Gonzalez (except like I said, Gonzalez is better). The reason the formula has stopped working isn't because he has "forced" pitchers into the system, it's because he's had crappy pitchers. Gordon was a former closer who was converted into a set-up man, and except for him wetting the bed in the playoffs, was arguably the best 8th inning man in the sport. By the "system" logic, the Yankees should have kept Quantrill and his 5 ERA instead of bringing in Gordon and his 2.5 ERA, because Quantrill was more of a middle reliever who fit a "system". If the Yankees did that, they would have been much worse off. In 2003, the Yankees had a bunch of these "system" guys to get the ball to Rivera, and it worked horribly. So in the off-season the Yankees signed a former closer, Tom Gordon, he came in and was the best set-up man in baseball. I'll never understand the reasoning behind ignoring better players just because they don't fit an imaginary "system". But hey, that's just me.
who's gonna keep alio and devils thirst for this japanese matchup bullshit in check? "wow" "insane"...heres my take on the matchup. who cares? Im supposed to get excited in december over the possibility that two japanese guys that Ive never seen pitch might meet eachother? guys, put your chopsticks back in your pants for a bit huh
With the pickup of Pettitte I'd rather start Igawa in AAA, let him get seasoning...Because the Yanks can manage with Carla(Maybe not) as their #5 for a little bit... Then hopefully Hughes or Igawa can improve enough to at least be a reliever and or #5 starter.
I'd like to keep Hughes off the major league roster unless he is both dominating AAA and one of our top starters goes down. I'd like to see Darrell Rasner get the opportunity to earn a spot on the pitching staff next season. He really pitched well down the stretch last year (I was at one game against Tampa Bay where he came out of the pen and pitched 4 innings of 1 hit ball, with a lot of strikeouts IIRC.)
Rasner has a future (probably not with the Yankees) as a #4 or #5 starter. Jim Bowden was too stupid to realize he had ability and released him. Considering I'd prefer to get the prospects more seasoning at Scranton, I hope he is the #1 guy called on when someone else gets injured (since Igawa will likely be the 6th man, and called on for the first injury).
Well, concerning Hughes, I'm 99% sure he could step in at the start of the season and be our third best starter. It's about getting more innings for him at this point.
Ehh, that's pretty bold. Right now you'd have to take Wang, Pettitte, and Mussina... But i'd sure take him over Randy and Carla...Would still like to see him start in Columbus though.
