Question: Would you be disappointed if they didn't draft an edge rusher if they signed DeMarcus Lawrence or Jadaveon Clowney in FA?
At this point in the season I’m kinda just watching prospects in a vacuum to try and form an opinion of their talent. I do my best to leave Jets needs out of it but that always drives where I’m looking I guess. Would I be upset? Maybe. Teams should be filling roster holes in free agency and drafting for talent. I would not hate a pick of someone like Williams or Little at OT, but I feel like Williams will be a good, not great player and Little is far from a sure thing despite all his physical talent, he’s very raw. So say in your scenario we sign DeMarcus ... what would you think of a defense that has him on one side and Allen or Ferrell or Burns on the other side? It would make an obvious weakness an immediate strength. We need offensive help for sure, I’m just not in love with any of the offensive options in the top ten right now.
As long as the OL is upgraded in the offseason, I'd be ok with that. I see Williams and Little as viable LT picks in the top 10, but neither is a Quenton Nelson type prospect. I'm just not sure we can get a Franchise LT after round 1 and the FA options aren't promising. OTOH, Edge has some good FA's for now.
Williams I see getting the Brick treatment here. He's a bad player, I feel like he will be a good LT in the NFL, but not a great one. Jet fans are all hungry of a great player in the top ten so he will get a lot of backlash from the fans. Little has the tools to be very good or great, but is raw. He gets off balance at times and relies too much on size vs technique. Boom or bust type. I like them both, I just see a few of the edge guys as potential defense changers while I see them as good players. I will openly admit to not being the best person to eval Oline. I tend to fall in love with the big maulers and not the more refined players. The best course is to try and trade down for extra picks, but If I was staying at five and Allen was there I'd jump at it.
I mean, I wouldn't be angry if we got one of the best Edge guys. It's been a big need for us since Abraham left. But, the OL is another big need with no above average talent. I'll take good LT play for 10+ years any day of the week. I'm no expert on evaluating OL players, but I like good pass protectors in an era where passing is the name of the game. Yes, trading down is the ideal move as long as it's not too far down. I hope we sign Lawrence if he's available to make Edge a less pressing need going into the draft.
If we sign DeMarcus, why would we need Allen, Ferrell or Burns? We'd have him at one OLB spot and Jenkins at the other (who is solid vs the run). IMO that would be a luxury or overkill, and if Sam wound up getting seriously injured, it wouldn't matter how great our pass rush was. IMO our #1 priority has to be protecting Sam. I agree that Williams will probably only be a good LT, not great, but that would be better than the mediocre we have now in Beacham. I agree that Little is far from a sure thing, but I think he's still probably be better than Beacham. Are either as talented or dynamic a prospect as Allen or Ferrell (I don't know Burns)? No, but they would fill a bigger need, which we wouldn't be able to do in FA unless we sign Donovan Smith. I'd be OK with overpaying him, taking Allen or Bosa or Ferrell, but I'd still worry about Sam's health and development, as Smith is only marginally better than Beacham. The thing is, if we sign Smith, we probably wouldn't look to draft an LT/upgrade the position for 3-5 years and Sam's career could be over by then if he isn't better protected. It's a tough place to be in. I don't know what the answer is, but something has to be done to seriously upgrade the LT position and the OL in general.
It’s never wise to take an inferior prospect in 1st rd because of need. Unfortunately this looks to be a really bad year to have a top 5 pick for us. As much as I hate the idea of going defense...again...we just may have to if we cannot trade down. At this point Jonah Williams is looking like the only offensive consideration in top 5. After that guys like Allen, Ferrell are going to be significantly better prospects than any offensive prospect. A trade down into Little or WR territory seems ideal but this doesn’t seem like a draft that will have many teams clamoring to move up. Thankfully it’s early and so much can change, hopefully it changes for the better for us.
While I agree protecting Sam is a huge priority, I would not take a lesser prospect high because I failed to acquire a LT elsewhere. Look at how dangerous the Texans D is today with both Watt and Clowney on the feild. Guys that can get after the QB are never a luxury. The more we put on the feild the better this defense will be. Jenkins is a nice player, but really just a body outside. He is not a skilled pass rusher by any means .
First, I agree that Jenkins is not a skilled pass rusher, but he is solid at setting the edge and vs the run. With a stud pass rusher opposite him, I think he will get more sacks. The problem with having two pass rushers is that then unless they're equally good or almost equally good vs the run, then you're vulnerable vs the run. In terms of Sam and edge rushers in the draft, we'll have to agree to disagree, albeit slightly, I think. It won't matter how great our pass rush is if Sam goes down with a major injury. If I could upgrade Beacham's play by as little as 10-15%, I'm gonna go with the LT over the edge rusher most of the time. For argument's sake, let's say that Bosa and Allen are rated at 9.82 and 9.80 respectively, Jonah Williams is a 9.79, and by the time of the draft, Greg Little is rated at 9.42, and all 4 are sitting there at the Jets' pick. I might not take Little since he's rated .4 of a point lower, but I would have no qualms taking Jonah Williams. If I thought that Williams had maxed his potential and couldn't get any better, and after interviewing and thoroughly scouting Little, I thought that he could develop into a future All Pro or Pro Bowler, I'd take him in a NY minute and not look back over .4 of a point. Now if Bosa and Allen's ratings a full point higher than Williams or Little (or maybe even .5 higher) I'd go with Bosa or Allen. It also can depend upon position, but since LT and pass-rushing OLB are equal in importance and both are major needs, in this situation, position would not sway me. With a major need at LT or pass-rushing OLB, I'd take a player at one of those positions rated at 8.8 over a player at a lesser position that wasn't a need rated as a 9.8.
I agree with your theory here. IMO you draft talent over need, but if there are two or three closely rated playes on your board, you let needs dictate how you separate them. My problem with this draft is I don’t have Williams or Little anywhere near guys like Bosa, Allen, or Ferrel. I think those three are all potential all pro game changers. I see the Tackles as adequate but not great. I’ll watch more of them over the next month, but my initial impressions of these guys is the edge class is stellar, the Oline class not so much.
Edge class might be deep, could potentially find someone in RD3. There are some really good pass-rushers in this draft though. Allen and Jolite Polite are monsters. Didn't even mention Bosa and Ferrel who is for some reason really underrated. Williams and Little would be worth the selection over the pass-rushers except for Bosa IMO. Maybe Allen and Polite over Little. The grades have to be close and they both are strong in the BPA / NEED department. I think Jet fans are too optimistic that we will grab Clowney or Lawrence. We won't get them.
Fair point, and if you're right (which you may be), then I agree. In that scenario, if I'm the GM, I'd look to sign Donovan Smith or Cedric Ogbuehi in FA and I'd go with one of Bosa, Allen or Ferrell in the draft. If I couldn't sign Smith or Ogbuehi, I'd then look to find the best LT, LG and blocking TE in this draft I could and would use all 5 picks (trading up if necessary) to fill those 3 needs. I'd order the OC to keep that TE on Beacham's outside shoulder on every play. If I couldn't find a big/strong TE that's a good enough blocker, then I'd look to make a backup OT with good athleticism, movement and strength a TE and he would be a permanent fixture on Beacham's left shoulder. I'd have the OL coach work overtime with the LT I drafted and have him compete with Beacham, and I'd have the OG I drafted compete with Long for the LG spot, and I'd do everything I could position-wise and scheme-wise to give Sam better protection on the left side of the OL.
We seem to really agree about how to build the team moving forward. We need to up grade around Sam badly both protection wise and weapon wise. The good thing is we have the cap space, now we just need to use it correctly. I’m excited to see where FA gets us. This could be a very quick turn around if we do this offseason correctly.
Yes, I think we do. I was excited about FA until I looked at the lists of who could be available. Have you checked out Spotrac (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents)? Admittedly, I don't keep up with other NFL teams so I'm not familiar with a lot of the players names I see there, but sadly, I don't see a lot of help in FA. Hopefully, you know of some names or will see some players that you know are better than who we have and will be upgrades. Right now, following is all I see offensively. WR Golden Tate (31) - 706 yds Tyrell Williams (27) 618 yds Adam Humphries (26) 639 yds Donte Moncrief (26) - 604 yds John Brown (29) - 672 yds Josh Gordon (28) 718 yds RB (players rushing for more than 400 yards so far this year or younger than 30) Le'Veon Bell Mark Ingram (29) - 519 yds Tevin Coleman (26) - 559 yds TJ Yeldon (25) - 408 yds Mike Davis (26) - 418 yds Alex Collins (25) 411 yds Peyton Barber (25) - 677 If you want to overlook age and go just by production: Adrian Peterson (34) 72 yds Frank Gore (36) - 708 yds TE Jesse James (25) - 414 yds CJ Uzomah (26) - 357 yds LT Donovan Smith (26) Bucs Cedric Ogbuehi (27) Bengals depth-type players? C Mitch Morse (27) Chiefs Matt Paradis (29) Broncos OG AJ Cann (27) Jaguars Kevin Pamphile (28) Titans Quinton Spain (28) Titans Marcus Martin (25) Cowboys Amini Silatolu (30) Panthers
Regarding the skill guys you listed, I would go after the following in order and what their best attributes are: -Tate (shifty, decent explosion even with lost step) -Williams (big, rangy, physical) -Humphries (good route runner, finds open creases well) -Bell (enough said) -Ingram (good, durable, almost every down back) -Coleman (explosive, good upside but very up and down) -Collins (some decent explosion, good talent, can he stay healthy?) If they don't go after Bell, then I'd say plan 1B is to go for Tate and Ingram. Those two guys will be a solid upgrade on O, not spectacular but good. Then focus on getting a serious Edge rusher, 2 OL and another OLB.
Looking at that list if they don’t sign Bell I’d like to see them go for either Coleman or Yeldon and draft another RB around round 3-4. I think they should move on from Crowell and Powell ...get younger . Not a fan of the OTs listed.....sign either Morse at C OR Cann at G and draft the other position. I’d love to see them sign Jesse James at TE - I always liked him . Decent blocker too ...would be a nice combo with Herndon. Forget Leggett and Tomlinson .....
Good LT prospects are hard to find, huge chance he does. Giants need a LT, Jets need a LT ... Cardinals might need one too.
Good LT prospects are hard to find, but it doesn't mean forcing the issue based on position alone if the prospect doesn't warrant top 10 attention and imho he doesn't. I could see him going 15-18. Jets and Cards wouldn't pick him that high (top 5) and the Giants coming off their 0-17 sleepwalk today look like they might be going QB. .
But Joe, that's what teams do. Teams will press the issue, they will overvalue especially when it comes to left tackles. Little has everything you need from a physical standpoint, his technique needs work, but a team will fall in love and there's a chance someone takes him in top 10 (Jets, Giants, maybe Buffalo). There's 2 high level OTs and then there's a potential gap. What QB will be available for the Giants? Is Herbert even coming out?
