Mac and Bowles need to go together. Clear out needed and fresh start for the Jets and Darnold next year. Now we have Darnold the next hire is a huge opportunity. DON'T BLOW IT!
What do you like about Wolf other than his last name? How is him not getting the GM job from the team that knows him better than anyone not a red flag?
Either perspective can be biased. Pro can be biased because he's Ron Wolf's son, and Con can be biased simply because he didn't get the GM job in GB. In reality, we don't know. Supposedly, he is highly thought of in NFL circles, but then so were Mac and Bowles, at least according to Casserly. Brett Favre and a number of other people associated with the team and FO expressed shock that Wolf didn't get the GM job in GB. Now maybe they just assumed that he would get it. Maybe he deserved it and maybe he didn't. Maybe it was a personality conflict between the board chairman and Elliot, politics, or it could have been his job performance. We can't know how much input he had into the drafts in GM and whether their poorer drafts the last several years were due to his choices or Ted Thompson's. The thing is, the same goes for almost any first-time GM candidate from any team and the 3 names that I think Tony posted. A candidate can sound good, but is he really? We don't know how much input he had into that team's drafts or what his evaluations skills are, how good his eye for talent is, or what his philosophy is regarding the draft, FA and building a team. With Reggie McKenzie, we have some idea since he was an actual GM. It was the same with Dorsey last year. We don't even know why Mac made all the picks he did. If Mehta was telling the truth and not just making shit up, then we know that there were differences of philosophy between Mac and Bowles, and that it appears that Bowles didn't even try to develop at least some of Mac's draft picks, and that Mac may or may not have drafted players that Bowles didn't want. We do know that in 4 years on the job, he hasn't done nearly a good enough job in FA and the draft, whatever the reason. Regardless, it's probably all moot, since it doesn't appear that Mac is getting fired.
Fire him Team has no identity on offense or defense. It's a random collection of pieces, with random chance that any draft pick turns out at least mediocre There's a body of evidence now to show he has no idea what he's trying to accomplish as a team; Can we really trust him for FA or for drafting?
I figured I'd compile a list of his drafts... off the team * = out of football entirely as far as I can tell 2015 1 Leonard Williams 2 Devin Smith* 3 Lorenzo Mauldin* 4 Bryce Petty* 5 Jarvis Harrison 7 Deon Simon 2016 1 Darron Lee 2 Christian Hackenberg (wtf is the Alliane of American Football...) 3 Jordan Jenkins 4 Juston Burris 5 Brandon Shell 7 Lachlan Edwards 7 Charone Peake 2017 1 Jamal Adams 2 Marcus Maye 3 ArDarius Stewart* 4 Chad Hansen 5 Jordan Leggett 5 Dylan Donahue* 6 Elijah McGuire 6 Jeremy Clark 6 Derrick Jones 2018 1 Sam Darnold 3 Nathan Shepherd 4 Christopher Herndon 6 Parry Nickerson 6 Folorunso Fatukasi 6 Trenton Cannon We won't know how 2017/18 will ultimately pan out for a couple of years at least, but if nothing else, it's a metric fuckton better than Idzik. But that's an extremely low bar to clear; question is, is it above average for an NFL GM? Is it good enough to entrust him with another draft? I lean towards no, but I'll admit it's not as dire as I was expecting. Free agency is another issue entirely. This team needs help, and I don't have much confidence in Macc there.
Yours is the most logical response--McCagnan must go AND THERE SHOULD BE NO DEBATE!! 4-12 before he takes over-- 4 years of MacCagnan and very likely 4-12 again. Weak roster, wasted picks, bad free agent signings and he brags that he can build an offensive line without using key draft picks. Haven't seen you do that yet, Mike!!
Look at his 3 second round picks--2 of the three already out of the league. The other second round pick (2017) is a safety picked right after he took S Adams in round 1. THEN he took WR Stewart and Hansen back to back and both are already off the jets and on practice squads somewhere--real value for the jets. Of course he closes his 2017 draft with 2 MORE DBs (4 total) in the draft where he selected ZERO offensive AND defensive lineman. And some people want to hand HIM $100M? Pass.
Might not be that bad to add to new staff if MacCagnan fired. Not sure I want him as new GM. Reggie had a hell of good draft in 2014 for Oakland: round 1 LB K. Mack round 2 QB D. Carr round 3 OG G. Jackson (drafted 1 pick AFTER Idzik reached for CB McDougle)
The biggest indictment on Mac is he was going to overpay Cousins when most fans knew that was a bad move. He's going to get credit for Darnold, but he only got Darnold because Cousins hooked us up and went to the Vikes. Imagine Mac's record if Cousins was on our team for $90 million or whatever it was.
The question isn't how many of Mac's picks are on our team, it's how many would be on any other team.
On average, if they have a single pick in every round, teams have been getting under 2 starter players per draft ( ~1.7-1.8), and just over 3 players per draft if you include depth (~3.2). Starters (8): Sam Darnold, Chris Herndon, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, Darron Lee, Brandon Shell, Jordan Jenkins, Leonard Williams Depth (6): Lachlan Edwards, Elijah McGuire, Nathan Shepherd, Parry Nickerson, Trenton Cannon, Jordan Leggett Lachlan Edwards is technically a starter, but I left him in depth for now. Jeremy Clark, Charone Peake, Folorunso Fatukasi, and Derrick Jones are still on this team, but the ones listed above are the ones I'd argue could still make it on other teams around the league. That puts Mac at 2 starters per draft, and 3.5 depth players or better per draft. The big provisos to all this, as usual, are Sam Darnold panning out, and those depth players improving over time. I'm probably being a bit optimistic that Jordan Leggett and Parry Nickerson can continue to be depth, but at least for now they are. There's also a case to be made that since the 2015 draft was using Idzik's scouts and personnel still, it could be an outlier. If so, you're looking at 2.3 starters per draft, and 4.7 depth players or better per draft, which are reasonable numbers. As a comparison, over a ten year period (2006-2015), Ozzie Newsome, taking into account the picks he had to work with, should have been getting ~1.9 starters and ~3.7 depth players or better per draft. He ended up averaging 2.1 starters and 3.9 depth players or better. For that same period, Ted Thompson should have been getting ~2.1 starters and ~4 depth players or better per draft , and ended up averaging 2.7 starters and 4.8 depth players. If Mac is retained after this season, the optimist in me is hoping that the 2015 draft is an Idzik-influenced outlier, since he drafted terribly, since that would shift his drafting ability from just above average (Ozzie-level) to competent.
It is extremely unfair to use actual facts and statistics here when the majority is so content to hang the guy out to dry based on a few anecdotes and crappy won/lost records. Some of the more open minded may consider the information you've provided rather than riding on their gut feelings but many have their minds firmly made up. I wondered about this too but was too lazy to do the work you put in - good job. The free agent situation is not so easy to quantify but I don't recall any situation where he signed a guy for a lot more money than the guy would have gotten elsewhere; Bridgewater he got for a song and parlayed it. I can't see complaining about the paucity of signings and at the same time salivating at the war chest that has been accumulated - the time is coming to put that cash to use; it's nice to have it in the bank. Whether it is fair or not, I think it takes more time to get all the pieces in place than it does to use what you have. I'm leaning towards keeping him around for one or two years to see how a coach that he has been instrumental in hiring is able to pull this team together with a clear and logical chain of command. It certainly looks like the operations guru is a figment of our imaginations. But if MacCagnan is a good part of the problem that pushes everything back a couple of years. I'm happy I'm not making the decision.
Your "number of starters" per draft logic seems strange to me. You are basically saying that as long as the coach starts a lot of guys the GM drafted, no matter how BAD they play or what the team's record is, we must judge the draft as great. Huh??Darron Lee is a good example. IMO MacCagnan REACHED on a first round pick on him. He has played ok at times, but I don't think many view Lee as a great first round pick now, or hypothetically would take him again in round 1 (he gets run over a lot). Kinda funny also that Lee gets suspended and the jets finally win. Simply starting bad draft picks should never be the barometer of a good/bad GM. Instead, consider their contributions,and where they were picked, not whether they are simply "starting."
Yet others have realized a fatal flaw in those facts and statistics which you're conveniently ignoring. Also see Solid Gold Bowles as the poster child for why putting a lot of time and effort into an analysis doesn't make that analysis good. (Note: I'm not putting Cidusii in the same category as SGB, Cidusii's analysis is mostly good whereas SGB had some weird vendetta against Mayfield he was trying to justify.)
The "fatal flaw" being the team is still losing? Tell me what I'm ignoring. What we have here is an objective attempt to quantify the GM's performance, not a subjective, judgemental approach. Of course it doesn't tell a complete story but no topic can be distilled down to a reliable conclusion relying solely on the end game and opinion.
The fatal flaw is that some of those players wouldn't be starters on other teams. The only reason they start here is because we suck and don't have anyone better.
Every team has guys who wouldn't start elsewhere and every team has some that could start almost anywhere. Holding out for an all-all-pro team is not going to be productive and trying to decide who fits into what category is, in most cases, a matter of opinion not of fact. The comments above may tell the temperature of the team but no one is claiming they give the entire weather report.
