I am sorry Bowles, but your reply makes 0 sense. Especially when you don't have any players to reference and you are throwing positions out there without any context on the talent of the PLAYERS playing those positions. If you want to continue talking bout this draft, start throwing player names out there. This is a deep EDGE class, as well as interior defensive lineman. Last draft Rosen was obviously high on the draft boards, and it wouldn't have been a reach to take him at 3 or 6 should the first 2 be taken.
for now since it's early i'm going off the average of everyone big boards. there is a site nflbigboard.com that averages them all out for a consensus of what the big board looks like. the talent is in reference to it. those are the consensus top 6-20 players i listed at the moment. there are 2 good rushers but both are top 5 and it's a position people don't normally pass up in the draft. they likely won't fall to where we are picking. that's bosa and ferrell. the one at 17 is burns. there is also josh allen, zack allen, and sweat but they are ranked 29th to 32nd so late 1st rounders. but i have seen mocks with us taking sweat. i'm not sure how you didn't understand those positions are referenced to players? but here is the link http://www.nflbigboard.com/
If we look back at the 2015 draft, Leo was the right pick. Vic Beasley has done nothing outside of his 2nd year when he stat padded on a bunch of backup lineman. He can't play the run and he has no pass rush moves. Now Gurley you can make the case, but I said it before, on their best days David Johnson is just as good as Gurley and he was taken in the 3rd round. RBs you never really have to draft high. That's why I bash Mac because it's clear his draft expertise is questionable at best cause he cant draft in the mid rounds. Shell was a good pickup
Not every big board is the same. I encourage you to check out Josh Allen and Montez Sweat on tape. They are good linebackers that can rush the passer. Positions are great to list but it's nothing without mentioning the players. More talented the higher the draft board and you take into account a need as well.
i will before the draft. a bit too early now but that's the idea of that site is it's an average so it accounts for that. it shows you their average rating and it's based on like 10 or so people's boards. i know we need a pass rusher be FA could be good for that. there are quite a few good ones that could hit the market and we have money to spend where there aren't any good WR1 or OT to hit the market this year so i'd rather focus the draft on that. If we sign say demarcus lawerence in the offseason, then our need for pass rusher in the draft is non existent making them non options for such a high pick
The analogy is all wrong. You have to make an investment today on a player who is available to draft. You are rating the player against 31 other GM's who are also rating players to be drafted. There will be differences in opinion on the value of that pick which can be monetized by either taking the pick or trading the pick. Consensus on value between the GM's is probably pretty similar at the top of draft boards and starts to diverge the later you get down the draft. There is definitely a value on picks based on consensus of best players available coupled with actual need. That doesn't mean you take the highest valued player based on BPA. It may mean you can fill your need with less value and trade into position for need and maintain the value of your pick position. Granted it can't always be done and at that point you make a calculated risk and reach. As to your example if Vic Beasley turns out to be Vernon Gholston or Todd Gurley turns out to be Blair Thomas nobody would be psyched about the choice after the fact. As you pointed out Vic Beasley and Gurley hadn't yet played a down in the NFL. How could you possibly know they would be a good or a bad investment? You don't that's why you have to make a valuation based on BPA and hope you made the right valuation before the draft. That puts you in position to fill both need and get value based on pre NFL production. The same thing would apply to an investor. If you're diversifying by vastly overpaying for an asset class you don't own it's probably not a great investment or diversifying your portfolio.
Chances of us getting Lawrence is slim to none. If we sign a Shane Ray, then the Jets should be looking heavy at pass rusher.
Yeah, I mean it was just an example, it wasn't really my overall point like the first part was. I'm just sick and tired of coming out of every draft with a player they think was the best available and still having giant holes. Sometimes the player is good, sometimes they aren't but its all a guess really and we wonder why this team hasn't had a pass rusher in 15 years. I can tell you for a fact that Pittsburgh doesn't draft that way. They draft by need. Is there any indication that they are bad at drafting or the Jets model is better? On draft day sometimes Pittsburgh gets killed for "reaching" for need, but then 2 years later it doesn't matter a damn bit what they said on draft day
depends if dallas resigns him or tags him. if he hits the open market we have a good shot with all the money we have. if not there is always fowler and ray as well or ansah , suh, matthews, clowney, wake, suggs, peppers. yeah some of them are quite old but there are still plenty of options meanwhile the options on WRs and OTs are very limited in FA this year
I agree with what you are putting down, after round 1; the picks have been very questionable. That I cannot dispute. Steelers, Packers, they know how to draft, especially outside of the first round.
I doubt he will ever see the open market, the guy is a complete stud and the Cowboys have the $ ... the 2nd tier of pass rushers you are referring to, should not stop the Jets from taking a good pass-rusher if available. In FA, the Jets could get some receivers, like Tyrell Williams, obviously probably won't get Golden Tate, cause he was just traded. Wake, Suggs and Peppers? Suh? Cmon. They won't solve our issues. They are old.
they are old but it buys us another year to draft a pass rusher. yes we need one but we need help for darnold more and outside of darnold all our 1st round picks in the last 6+ years have been defense. we really need help on o-line and a stud WR target for darnold to throw to for a long time. it's a good draft where we are picking for both those positions as well. we could get our future LT or future julio jones for darnold and get by with a 1 year rental rusher and draft an edge rusher next year. there are a lot more good edge rushers in the NFL right now then there LTs and o-line as a whole. if you don't draft o-line you almost never get them on the market. the giants paid out the ass for soldier and he's only been decent at best. i mean if by the grace of gods bosa falls to us (never gonna happen) then sure why not, but outside of that miracle we need to build around sam and get him some protection or targets
Nah, Jets should not be signing those old ass pass-rushers you are referring to. That's like taking Gorilla tape and putting it over a cut on your arm instead of a bandaid. I don't see why you can't address both sides in FA and in the draft. You don't need a Julio Jones to win in this league, a trio of Q, Robby and a player like Tyrell Williams would really help the receiving corps. Hernon you hope he develops, Leggett needs more reps. You can find a receiver outside of the first round. Jets need to upgrade the talent level everywhere, but you aren't going about it the right way. It still appears you are making a case to reach for an offensive player. Part of building around Sam is ALSO fielding a defense that can generate turnovers and give Darnold more shots with the football as well. Take ALL of the talented players coming into the draft, factor in needs and create a draft board. Wake, Suggs or Suh will not do the Jets any justice in the pass-rush department at this stage of their careers. "Buying another year", is not the right way to go about that.
it's a band aid but 2019 we should be looking at a playoff run. darnold will be in year 2. our defense is stout and really just missing a pass rusher. anderson and Q hopefull come back and rermain healthy but we lack a good o-line and lack targets for darnold to throw too. band aiding a 1 year rusher is fine and replacing them via the draft is easy, they don't need chemistry the way a LT or WR needs with their teammates. we have the FQB so everything should be all about putting him in a position to suceeed. the defense is missing 1 piece and edge rusher, the offense is missing a RB, WR, LT, C at minimum. we don't need to invest in more defense that high. we can still draft a 2nd tier pass rusher in the 3rd if we wanted to. again really depends who we sign. I'm not making a case to reach at all, as i said if we look in the 10-20 area where we will pick there are a couple of WRs and a couple of OT worth taking that aren't a reach. if there is no OT, or WR worth taking when we pick and there is a good pass rusher then sure take the rusher, i'm saying if you have 3 similar rated players and 1 is an OT and 1 is a rusher and 1 is a WR we should take the OT 1st WR 2nd and rusher 3rd.
Its not a bandaid to sign those old dusty players hoping they fix your pass-rush. 2019 we should be looking at a playoff run, and 2020 we should be ready to contend for a SB. Our defense is not good enough right now, saying its just missing a pass-rusher when its hard to get a good one logically makes no sense, its a probably the 2nd highest need on the team and has the lowest level of talent on the Jets. Its almost as if you think getting a pass-rusher isn't high on the priority list. Right now, there are 2 OTs that stand above the rest. Like I said earlier, you do not reach for LT in the first round.
i never said it wasn't a priority, come on man. i'm saying it's not as big of a priority. how are those 2 stud rushers helping in denver? how dallas doing with their stud rusher? then think about how brick and mangold solidified out o-line all those years. it's almost as if you think 10 sacks out of roughly 1000 snaps played a year on defense is more important then stopping those rushers play in and play out to protect our 3rd overall pick QB and allow our RBs to have a hole to run through. The jets need to fix the offense. the defense isn't broken it's getting wrecked by out offense the jets defense has had the 6th most plays run on it. alot of that is due to many 3 and outs. when they get off the field we give it right back. we can't protect sam and he has nobody to throw to. an edge rusher doens't fix that. yes it's a need i never said otherwise and it depends on how the draft goes but any smart GM who drafts his FQB 3rd overall knows the best thing to do is feed him talent so he can succeed. this franchise needs to be built around sam the league is an offense league. 9 of the top 10 offensive teams should make the playoffs meanhwile 5 of those teams are bottom 10 in defense. if the offense holds the ball longer then it helps the defense as a whole. we've invested 9 out of our last 10 1st round picks on defensive players. the only offensive player in that span was darnold last year. the 11th pick ago? was sanchez. the last time we drafted a non QB offesnive player in the 1st round was 2008 in dustin keller and that was our 2nd 1st rounder and 30th overall where we took gholston 6th overall. at some point you need to invest in the offense and we are past that point.
Pretty sure Von Miller was SBMVP and DeMarcus Ware was a big time contributor with the QB playing the worst ball in a SB since Trent Dilfer. Who stripped sacked Cam Newton to win the game? It was always about balance, having a great team on both sides of the ball while you have a QB under the rookie wage. Jets obviously need a LT, and a C. However, say the Jets draft 16ish, you consider all options, pass rushing class is very talented so you really have to evaluate that position in a big way as well. If Little and the guy from Alabama are gone, there will be tough pickings for the OT position and I don't think the Jets need a WR in the first round, pass rusher would trump that. OT, C, Pass-rusher, corner, etc ... take the most talented player that can help your team. Jets have more than 1 pick and 100M in cash.
Who says Dez can still produce? People who recognize his name so are in love? No tools hurts Darnolds stats, not his development. He still has to learn to read and attack a D. That someone drops the pass and they lose games gets fans twisted
von miller is a beast and they drafted chubb 5th overall this year. they have 15 sacks combined halfway through the season already. yet they have the same record as us and we beat them. i've never played down the importance of a pass rusher, i said it was a need in the long term, but you are playing down the importance of the o-line. plenty of teams have won SBs without an elite pass rusher and some have even won with a shitty defense overall, no team with a shitty o-line has ever won a SB in the modern NFL. yes we have cash but there isn't any good free agent lineman out there to fill our needs. there are good pass rushers that will hit the market even if they aren't elite ones. if both good OT are gone in the draft, then take a WR give darnold the ability to suceed. you don't draft a QB 3rd overall then refuse to give him a run game, o-line, or people to throw too. the jets goal right now if they want to win, is to support sam. mac should be spending his lie thinking about what he can do to help sam. the franchise is on his back.
You can address WR in the FA. Darnold doesn't need a Julio Jones, but he needs options on the field and he will distribute accordingly. If it came down to WR vs EDGE, I'm taking pass-rusher and I will gladly pay Tyrell Williams from the Chargers and draft another receiver in the 3rd round that can return kicks on special teams and have the ability to step in as that 4th receiver. Trading down is always good too, perhaps pick up an OT and pass-rusher. you are getting a little too dramatic about it, I think I just have a different mind-set when it comes to this team thats all
