Your going off Measurables and not watching the tape here. The differences between Wentz and Allen were pretty extreme coming out of school. Wentz never had to find excuses for his play or inferion stats because he elevated his tame and made meaningful plays on a regular basis. He did complete 8% more of his passes than Allen, had similar TD numbers and less picks in a very similar ammount out attempts over thie careers. His lowast YPA as a starter was his last season at 7.9 where as Allen drops to a 6.9 in his final season. Wentz was all around the cleaner QB prospect and its not even close. Allen does make some great highlights, he also airmails far too many easy swing passes and 5 yard outs. I think my biggest problem is he does not seem to processes the game well either at the line or during the play. He throws with little to no anticipation. He makes big time plays but too often does not make the routine ones. He's a project that coaches think they can mold.
the analytics? check your source. Many of the "sources" just popped up a few years ago for profit and do nothing but post numbers with no context.
I watched a shit ton of tape (not on wentz, but allen) and have quite a few threads on this very forum breaking down his throws. I want rosen or darnold, but if ti comes down to allen or mayfield, I'd take allen a million times over
Because i'm not concerned about clickbait twitter fake news from a "self proclaimed" expert. i have my own eyes and can make my own judgements. that's the issue in today world, too many "sheep" who can't think for themselves. we have more and more resources then ever to form out own opinions, people are just too lazy to use them
Yeah, I watched his pro day. The fact that he could maintain decent mechanics in shorts and no pressure proves nothing. It will take many hundreds, if not thousands, of reps to ingrain these new mechanics into his muscle memory. Most of the time he did NOT manipulate or use the pocket, he bailed relying on his running ability and big arm instead of his processing ability which is below average.
I agree blind reliance on stats or analytics is very bad and as you said different people can use similar methodologies and make mistakes in their grading. Analytics are a tool and ignoring them is just as bad as over using them. They can help confirm or explain especially when look at all of them in their whole. In this case looking at the stats as a whole they all point in similar directions towards Allen and Mayfield. While they are not absolute they do help bolster many of the positives about Mayfield and rather than helping explain Allen's deficiencies they help to conform them and point to him being even worse than his base statistics indicate. They also individually and as a whole point out that many of the excuses made for Allen do not seem to hold water.
Are you kidding me. Wentz played for a team that owns division 2 football. Allen played for a team that routinely stinks. Wyoming had a winning record because of Allen. North Dakota State won their conference championship this year without Wentz and routinely dominate their conference without Carson Wentz. Wentz played with several players who were drafted but that's not even the point. He played with talent that was at least as good or better than every one else North Dakota State played. He went 2 in the draft because he is smart, big, great arm and translated to the next level. He lifted nobody. His team had a mismatch in every game he played much like Mayfield. He went second because of his measurable and smarts. North Dakota State without Carson Wentz is great in their conference. They have a killer program.
Are we drafting David or Goliath?? I don't really care as long as we end up in a SB.. That said ..Ill be reciting some Psalms that the good Lord send us a hero named Mayfield or Rosen
I know throwing in shorts doens't mean a lot, but it shows he's actively working on it as well as improving which is what you want to see. as far as bailing out early, come on man, most of mayfeilds plays were him bailing out. he loves to roll out. Allen didn't do it nearly as much. If you watch them side by side and throw away stats, it's pretty clear who looks better. Why do you think cleveland isn't even considering mayfield?
The problem is we live in a day where SEO means more then good data. A day where you can make lots of money off the internet and clickbait or differing opinions can make you a ton of money. The 1st person to run the "mayfield" train probably made a couple of grand alone just cementing their place in the top 5 of the SEO. Regardless if they felt it was true or not. Everyone on sites is in it to make money and many of them don't have a long enough history to take their word as good. Also trying to assign a number to a human being is not realistic. You can't predict the future. You can't use numbers and patterns to something that has a human element to it, if you could every expert would "guess" right, people would predict the superbowl winners and the records. But none of that happens. everyone is just guessing and these "pop up" sites are out to make a quick buck
Look we're not going to ever agree on this. If you don't see the difference between how Mayfield uses the pocket before taking off, and keeping his eyes downfield, and Allen, who bails when he sees his primary receiver covered and then takes off often running away from the LOS, I don't know what to tell you. And it's good that he's working on his mechanics, but it's not going to change that quickly.
Are you talking about yourself? The self proclaimed expert who sees something different than everyone else when they review game film?
I would respectfully disagree. Our eyes often deceive us and give us biases. Greg Cosell called Allen "scout catnip" but said his actual play was lacking. I look at Winston Biggs avatar and am immediately biased as I think here is a BMF and I often give his posts immediate respect based on the avatar. Who would ignore anything Steve McQueen would say? Analytics helps correct many of these biases helping confirm, explain or give context to what we see on film. There is a lot of good evidence here. But we should not go crazy and say Mayfield is the 4th best QB all time based on his Q whatever score. It needs to be a supplement that helps explain, confirm or give us a red flag. Not the decision maker. But neither should we ignore evidence or discount it because we do not like what it tells us.
