At this stage, I only want 1 QB out of this draft (if you haven't noticed, I am very picky). I mean if we get Mayfield, or Allen of course I will root for them, but its not every year that a QB comes along that is as fundamentally sound as Rosen. I was a fan of Goff before Rosen, and Rosen is like a rich man's version of Goff. I am just saying, if I were Mac, not a chance I would've traded up to 3 for a Mayfield.
Make sure you wear your PJs inside out the night before the draft. A lot of the QBs in this draft aren't chopped liver. Its a deep, talented class. Might not contain all time greats like a Marino, but its a solid class.
A trade up to take what is left is wrong, you have to have one QB in mind and go for him, you can't go into a draft thinking meh one of the three will do us, it would be a shock if the first three of the board all turned into FQB's. I also won't get what I want and nor will Barkley.
And if you want to convince anyone that is a valid view (Mayfield not being worth the 3rd pick), then you can provide more evidence that he is lacking in the area you have identified: football IQ. You have yet to provide anything other than "Rosens the bestest".
And my cap on inside out and backwards! After doing all the reading/watching of tape this is where I'm at: Rosen is clearly the best QB in this class. The ONLY thing that will prevent him from becoming, not just a decent starter but a HOF'er is the concussion issue. That presents a risk, but it absolutely has to be lived with to get the best QB since Luck. Mayfield is my fallback option. He's a winner and has done so against all odds and has a plus arm and superior accuracy. I have zero concerns about his height. My only concern with him is that he'll have to learn to play under center and a "pro" system, but he learned every new system he's played in, and mastered what is considered a pretty complex spread offense at OK, so aside from a small learning curve I don't see an issue. Darnold has all the tools, and potentially could be a HOF'er, but he has some things that need to be fixed - his elongated throwing motion, his tendency to scramble too soon; his deep ball accuracy; and he also played in a mostly spread system and will have to learn to play in a "pro" set. Allen is a huge gamble. Yes, he has amazing physical gifts, but his processing speed and his inconsistent accuracy are red flags. He MIGHT be able to overcome these and become the FIRST guy to do so, but I think he has definite bust potential. Moreover, if he could be made to fulfill his potential, it's not the Jets who can do it. He needs a "QB Whisperer" and an offensive minded HC, playing in a city with a lot less media and fan pressure than NY. I won't slit my wrists if he gets taken by the Jets, but I won't be happy, and I'll be holding my breath until I see him actually produce positive results. I might even prefer that they trade down and take Jackson later than taking Allen at #3.
We have no idea which QB is better intellectually. We’ve never sat down with him to talk football, and even if we did we wouldn’t know the right questions to ask. The report from the combine was that while Rosen and Darnold were impressive on the whiteboard, Mayfield blew teams away. I’m not going to stand here and act like I know how these guys’ football IQs compare to one another, but I don’t think it’s fair to say Rosen’s is unequivocally better.
Very well said and laid out post. I prefer Mayfield to Rosen for three reasons. Accuracy, performance under pressure and potentially more durable. Absent the injury issue I would declare Rosen number one but I think he takes too many hits and the ability to move in the pocket is one of the most important if not most important trait a NFL QB can have. But I do recognize each of the big 3 QBs carry risks. There is no right or wrong answer between these 3. I would be thrilled with any of the three. I do very much admire well thought out posts like the one you made above.
Josh Freeman is a fair athletic comparison though I believe he is substantially faster. I think Freeman ran something like a 5.00 second 40 yard dash. Allen is a 4.75 guy. Freeman had decent career #s he fizzled out of the league because his #s weren't good enough to overcome the locker room reputation he developed. Allen being a far more talented player aside, If "at worst" Allen becomes Freeman without the bad attitude than he does not have the bottomless floor that everyone keeps acting like he does.
I never said Mayfield is dumb. I also never actually said Mayfield lacks the IQ to play the position. Dumber QBs have come and gone, but I prefer the one w/ the best IQ. This is because I have 0 confidence in the Jets developing a rookie QB. Rosen is intellectually on another level. Check out the Rosen draft thread, plenty of articles throughout the year. BTW Rosen is the bestest, and to be honest, I don't even think Mayfield is better then Lamar Jackson. That's just truth based off the film.
I only like 3 QBs in this class for the Jets. Rosen, Darnold and Jackson. I think Darnold has a much higher ceiling then Mayfield and has true IT factors. I absolutely prefer Jackson over Mayfield. More desirable skill-sets on the field, and has done way more with less. Playing in a pro style is no easy feat. I think Mayfield has very spotty pocket presence and it will take him at least 2 seasons to get that down (if he gets it down). I think Mariota still struggles in this department to this day.
Trent Dilfer, and a lot of these analysts beg to differ my friend. I am putting together things I've heard about Rosen for the last 3 years. Of course I didn't interview him. Cmon now. His IQ has been loved by scouts since high school.
I never said you said those things, just that you've identified IQ as a problem for Mayfield (as it pales next to Rosen, by your account). I don't need to check out evidence for something I already believe, which is that Rosen is an intelligent individual. What I'm asking from you is to show me why you feel Mayfield doesn't warrant the 3rd overall pick, or even exceed Lamar Jackson as a prospect. I'm asking because I value your opinion on draft prospects but in this case I'm failing to see the logic behind the opinion. All I can really see is that you love Rosen and don't seem interested in any opinion that may conflict with that.
What I find ironic is that he rules out Mayfield because of intelligence. Mayfield is a guy that scored the 2nd highest score ever by a QB in the AIG intelligence test but then advocates that we take Jackson who scored a 13 on the wonderlink. While I am not a fan of the Wonderlink it does one thing well and that is send out red flags when someone does very poorly. Quite inconsistent logic. Basically he seems to ignore all evidence that does not suit his predetermined conclusion and only accept evidence that supports it. There is a ton of evidence that both Rosen and Mayfield are extremely intelligent and have impressed everythere they have gone with their intelligence and knowledge.
I will respond to EDGE in a moment; however I have to comment on this first. Wonderlic does not test a players football IQ. It evaluates a person's ability to process information and problem-solve. It is not a "how good of a QB are you" test. Otherwise Peyton Manning would have the highest wonderlic score. Ask yourself this, who has the highest score? And is that QB actually good? It does not send out red flags. There are plenty of QBs who have had low scores that went on to have great careers. Using Wonderlic to make your argument here won't do you any justice. Oh, and where did I saw Lamar had the best or 2nd best football IQ in this draft? Did I ever say that? I think instinctively he's one of the best. Again, don't miscomprehend what I am saying here. I never said Mayfield was dumb, I said Rosen intellectually is on another level. That also goes for the "AIG" or whatever that is. Give me a link on the correlation between a high score for AIG and a franchise QB.
OK, so we are agreeing on Rosen being a very intelligent QB. Like I said, his football IQ is extremely high, and its much higher then Mayfield. Its evident on tape and in the interviews. My assessment on Lamar v Mayfield v Rosen in terms of skill-sets that translate. Accuracy: - Rosen - Mayfield - Lamar Arm strength: - Lamar - Rosen - Mayfield Adaptability to the NFL (pro style experience - snaps under center, reads pre and post, responsibility at the LOS) - Rosen - Lamar - Mayfield Pocket Presence: - Rosen - Jackson - Mayfield Athleticism: - Lamar - Mayfield - Rosen So essentially I see Mayfield as a QB that does a lot of things good, but nothing GREAT (or elite for that matter). He is not #1 in any of the skill-sets. Skill-sets that translate to the NFL, I have Rosen and Lamar at the top in terms of the 3 QBs. Lamar has a higher ceiling due to his rate of improvement in college, age and the fact that he's a giant ball of clay waiting to be molded. He still has much better pocket presence then Mayfield.
I did not say that the wonderlink tests a players football IQ. It is a flawed intelligence test that's soloe benefit is to red flag those players that do extremely poorly such as Vince Young's 7. While Jackson's 13 is a borderline red flag it is still pretty bad as my cat would have an even statistical chance of scoring a 13 on the wonderlink by randomly placing his paw on the answers. What the wonderlink does is show how seriously flawed and illogical your arguments are where you spend all this time talking up Jackson and now Rosen. You base your Rosen argument on intelligence then tear down Mayfield on some imaginary perceived lack of intelligence but continue to support Jackson who may have some serious intelligence concerns based on his ability to record a score on an intelligence test that your average 3rd grader could score higher on. Seriously, the type of questions asked on the wonderlink are what day comes after Tuesday. In regards to the AIG it was developed to replace the wonderlink test because the wonderlink test (developed in 1934) has not shown a very good link between high scores and football intelligence along with carrying a number of cultural, economic, language and other biases. Because of the poor performance of the Wonderlink the AIQ was developed and was designed to measures a football players intelligence in terms of field awareness, decision making, reaction time, learning, creativity, and adaptability. Mayfield scored the highest score of any player this year and the 2nd highest score by a QB ever and one of the highest scores ever recorded among the 4000+ players who have taken the test. It is nice tyo have opinion, it is also nice to cherry pick your supporting arguments and it is also nice to just make things up to support these arguments. All I can see from your arguments is you formed an opinion, you believe you are always right so you say you're right and everyone else is wrong. It's a nice if your only talking to yourself, or if your telling others what to do and believe but it seems to be lacking if your actually trying to engage in anything that resembles a discussion. What people here were saying was not that you were wrong but that you should actually justify your arguments and show some logic. Not simply making things up because you want to be right. All 3 QBs have flaws and I respect anyones opinion as to why they might support a particular candidate. There are plenty of reasons to support Rosen or not like Mayfield that are based in fact. In that sense no one is wrong or right. They are valid opinions. I think what has been expressed here is the logical flaws in your justifications. Simply making stuff because you want to be right well it has some problems.
There's a certain QB from the Steelers that scored low. There are certain things that cannot be measured on a test and that's called instincts. Again, your bold, that's where you lost right there. My argument is that Rosen has a far better football IQ then Mayfield, to me not even close. Lamar Jackson was mentioned in terms of QBs I would have on the Jets, that's it. You just played yourself. Now I think the bold is where you got tripped up a little bit(?) I was describing each of the QBs skillsets if you actually read my posts. See when you assume, you look bad and you kinda look bad right now. Regardless, instincts is mental first and foremost. To not consider that part of ones IQ is pretty petty. Using tests to judge a QB is a real quick way to get fired in this league. Baker Mayfield, the ultimate QB for "nerds" to evaluate. And he's short to boot. But he will probably be a Jet anyway, so ill root for the kid.
More about the ridiculous write up on Mayfield. I like him but that was pure fantasy Look, every QB has pluses and minuses. When you give a list the length of my arm kissing things Mayfield is better than everyone else at doing, I don't care how you got there. Things like best velocity on short passes and throws into tight windows? When everyone comments how open his targets are. It's a forum blogger. Hand your hat on him. I'll pass
Your going strictly off college QR, one year? WTF, why can't you just say what's obvious, they had similar numbers. Shit, it's like an insult to not make Mayfield into and all time great
