Rex Ryan on 2018 Draft Class-Prefers Allen

i'd have to dig, but if you have links feel free to post them. I cna't find any reliabel sites that list any QBs throw speed. even the one i found saying allen threw 66mph looks sketchy

 

They are all sketchy, but I can’t find any that show he threw 58 mph.

Here’s one that show 60 mph, now show me one that says 58 mph??

http://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-2018-NFL-Combine/10241/dh/

 

I don't know lol like i said it's buried in one of the threads here

 

I see a lot of scouting reports that really say the same thing.

1 - throwing the hardest doesn't mean you have the strongest arm on the field. Arm strength also allows you to make throws in tight windows. This metric cannot be proven in the combine

2 - no he doesn't make the most nfl throws per metric. Bowles already disputed this. It's also on tape. Plus spread offense and bad defenses

3 - Football iq isn't totally measured per tests but situational football. Listen to how Rosen talks. He knows a great deal of football. Dilfer also said he's the smartest q.b

4 - Pennington, I believe thought Hack was a good q.b so Penny might be wrong here. He also worked with just Mayfield. Did he actually work with Rosen.

Size matters btw. That's a fact. Not a perception. There's a reason why 6'4 is a key size for qbs

 

1. Agree - can’t be proven at all until a guy is in the NFL.
2. Go read the SI article. They tracked all throws and he rated best. Not sure what Bowles you are referring to. If it’s solidgoldbowles then you know it’s wrong.
3. Again this is perception, not a fact.
4. Pennington actually likes Allen the most, maybe he isn’t any good at picking qb’s.
5. While I might agree with you, it would be my perception. Here’s an interesting article about height. 6’2” is factually the best:
http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2017/02/stats_show_shorter_nfl_quarter.html

 

2 - see when I watch Mayfield, I see a qb that runs a solid spread offense, but when I watched the Bowl game, Texas game and Ohio State, if the defense is in position and sticks to their assignments, they gave Mayfield and that offense trouble. 2nd half Georgia game, against an nfl like defense he struggled mildly to make the throws needed and took a lot of sacks. It's in the Texas game too.

3. Again watch Rosen speak and watch him run the UCLA offense. During the draft he talked about probability in the big play in correlation to going through your progressions. Mayfield is learning about the WCO still. Who is ahead of Who? Perception is reality. There's no debate on who has a higher football IQ. Read any article.

5. So that's still taller then Mayfield. Rodgers is 6'2, I think Mayfield is closer to a Case Keenum then a Drew Brees or Russel Wilson.

 

Well the link does say no one has ever receive a number over 60mph & Allen was over 66. Kills the B's that Mayfield's arm is about the same.

 

Good defenses will do that to most any qb from time to time. Fair to say Baker played average (not even bad) against those teams. 7 tds - 2 int’s, close to 1k yards (won 2 of 3). For some of the other qbs in this draft those games would be considered great.

Rosen to me is the most talented guy in this draft class, he has the best overall arm talent and head on his shoulder + should be the guy we take at 3, so no real argument there.

I think Baker will be great, how great, I don’t know...

 

I've said time and time again, whoever they pick I understand. I see tons more upside in Allen. He may crash and burn, I'd take the risk. Not like I see Baker as a Given. That's it. But I'm not trashing Mayfield's to make my case for Allen. You continually knock Allen to make your case. This one, using his arm strength against him I'd particularly desperate. You have no idea if throwing earlier would have made for a completion. We're down to complaining about how his completions happen. And saying I can't prove it untrue is just as ridiculous. If I ever cared. At least we know Allen can, it's not a negative.

 

There have been guys who ran faster than the combine record at their pro days, but it doesn’t count. Who’s to say Baker wouldn’t throw 64-65 mph at the same proday as Allen.

For the record, I think Allen’s arm is stronger by quite a bit, but who cares... accuracy trumps power in the NFL.

 

But Mayfield is "2nd place" in most of those categories. So if we assigned points to 1st - 4, 2nd - 3, 3rd - 2, 4th - 1 this is what his score would be:

Arm Strength: 2nd = 3
Accuracy - 3rd - 2
Football IQ - 2nd = 3
Fundamentals - 2nd (I disagree that Darnold is better, in fact I put Darnold 4th) = 3
Size - 4th = 1

Total = 12 points

Rosen:

Arm Strength: 3rd = 2
Accuracy - 1st - 4
Football IQ - 1st = 4
Fundamentals - 1st = 4
Size - 2nd = 3

Total = 17

Darnold:

Arm Strength: 4th = 1
Accuracy - 3rd - 2
Football IQ - 3rd = 2
Fundamentals - 4th = 1
Size - 3rd = 2

Total = 8

Allen:

Arm Strength: 1st = 4
Accuracy - 4th - 1
Football IQ - 3rd = 2
Fundamentals - 3rd = 2
Size - 1st = 4

Total = 13

You can argue about the ranks I assigned, but I think they're pretty close. The point is though that even though Mayfield might not be #1 in any category, he scores high in most, thus giving him a good overall rating.

 

I remember that, and you're right about the lack of commenting after the adjusted (downward) numbers came out. Still, it's not like Mayfield throws weak.

 

Here's a list of starting QBs as of 2015 (the most current I could find) and their height:

Tallest QB's:

Brock Osweiler – Denver Broncos – 6'8"

1. Joe Flacco – Baltimore Ravens – 6'6"
2. Nick Foles – St. Louis Rams – 6'6"
3. Cam Newton – Carolina Panthers – 6'5"
4. Blake Bortles – Jacksonville Jaguars – 6'5"
5. Philip Rivers – San Diego Chargers – 6'5"
6. Zach Mettenberger – Tennessee Titans – 6'5"
7. Carson Palmer – Arizona Cardinals – 6'5" (No. 1)
8. Ben Roethlisberger – Pittsburgh Steelers – 6'5" (No. 2)

Shortest QB's:

1. Russell Wilson – Seattle Seahawks – 5'11"
2. Drew Brees – New Orleans Saints – 6' (No.6)
3. Johnny Manziel – Cleveland Browns – 6'
4. Tyrod Taylor – Buffalo Bills – 6'1"
5. Aaron Rodgers – Green Bay Packers – 6'2" (No. 5)
6. Brian Hoyer – Houston Texans – 6'2" (No. 10)
7. Andy Dalton – Cincinnati Bengals – 6'2" (No. 4)
8. Ryan Fitzpatrick – New York Jets – 6'2"(No. 7)
9. Teddy Bridgewater – Minnesota Vikings – 6'2"

Average height QB's rankings:

1. Tom Brady – New England Patriots – 6'4" (No. 3)
2. Eli Manning – New York Giants – 6'4" (No.8)
3. Jay Cutler – Chicago Bears – 6'3" (No.9)

While Mayfield would be on the lower end of this list, that's only by a difference of less than 2" in many cases, and I don't think that's a crippling deficiency.

 

I never said he did either. not sure anyone did. he's on par with rosen and darnold. allen is in another tier though not that it means alot. also look at jackson and his "slow" number, but the film shows him chuck it deep with little effort and his intermediate throws are right there with mayfield as far as zip. watson was criticized for a slow throwing speed as well last draft, but had no issues hitting fuller and hopkins deep.

 

Is it fair then that the “Under 60% completion %”’Allen death sentence vs Mayfield “Under 6”1” death sentence are pretty much a wash?

Yeah these things are worthy of being mentioned but in no way should they be anything close to bible.

I still have questions about Mayfield being able to find throwing lanes w.o drifting in the pocket or on rollouts but that doesn’t mean im completely dismissing him.

It should be likewise w Allen.There have BEEN college QBs under 60% comp. who have succeeded in the NFL..most of them came from situations much like Josh at smaller schools. It’s ok to have questions about his ball placement but it’d be foolish to simply dismiss him like the stat geeks are doing

 

Yeah, raw speed doesn't tell me much. Not saying it makes NO difference, but it's not the #1 criteria for me.

 

2 inches is a big deal though. it's the difference in seeing something or not seeing something. that shortest list is pretty gross outside of rodgers, brees, and wilson

 

I don't recall saying that the 56 Comp % was a "death sentence", but I agree that it's troubling to the degree that Mayfield's height is. Neither are deal breakers IMO, but certainly can be used to rank the candidates. In the end it's up to Macc to decide which, if any, make the most difference.

 

Both can be deterrents to success at the NFL level, but we'll only know for sure when both QB's go up against NFL defenses.

 

No you haven’t done that at all.But as a the most level headed Mayfield guy..I figured it’d be a good place to start to mend some collective fences