Allen Vs Mayfield at the 3 pick - what the film shows

Sorry, you've shown absolutely nothing conclusive to prove that Mayfield isn't going to be a good pro QB. This is simply blatant bias, couched in seemingly expert assessment. Macc himself has said numerous times that all four QBs are being looked at, including going to their pro days and inviting them in for workouts. Unless you provide credentials showing you're part of Macc's staff, lay off the "guarantees" of what Macc will do in your attempt to support your bias.

 

That’s actually a refreshing attitude that you don’t see many on either front (Allen/Mayfield) taking.

Everyone gets so caught up in their guy + arguing that over time it becomes my guy has no flaws and is great, your guy sucks.

 

I agree with you about ball placement & that was really my whole point. People keep getting on Allen for his ball placement but outside of what I term as misfires(Which again..is something very typical of big armed down the field type QB's)I really don't think it's anywhere close to the issue it's been deemed. I see good ball placement in most instances w. room to get better based on tangible analysis pertaining to his mechanics.I don't agree that he doesn't throw w. anticipation...we've seen that a few times over including on some short out patterns which he executed beautifully. Decision making is something all young QB's need work on...given the fact he was asked to carry the team on his back & try to make plays out of nothing I take that with a grain of salt.

I'm not gonna convince you w. Allen. I understand that. You wanna see him put it all together & you aren't gonna buy the circumstances surrounding him that may have caused the lack of production. I see plenty of reasons to expect further ascension from Allen once an offense is built to suit his strengths. And I'm not gonna overlook the most physically gifted QB to enter the league since Cam Newton solely b.c his production was lacking at a small school. When i see a weakness in a draft prospect...I don't just automatically assume it can't be fixed or that it's a deal breaker. I look at what's causing that weakness & can it be improved. In Allen's case I see a guy well on his way to being a FQB...he needs a year behind the scenes which he'd get in NY.

As for Mayfield, I didn't do a good job of outlining exactly what i meant. While he'll fit the ball into some tight windows, I rarely see him do so from a set position in the pocket. The scheme he was in allowed him massive throwing lanes that removed his height from the equation & then use his legs to find to the proper launching point. But what happens in the NFL when defenses contain the edges & bottle him up in the pocket? Yeah they'll be some throws he'll still be able to complete but we've seen nothing in the way of him dropping straight back, throw the ball within the tackle box downfield into a tight window. In other words i want to see him drop back w. some pressure in his face & throw the ball on a dime to a well covered receiver without needing to move laterally to find a lane & space to get his throw off. Now maybe he CAN do that. But that's not as easy as a projection to make as w. Say Allen's Ball placement b.c we see Allen's footwork on every single play & have seen it improve this offseason.

We're not gonna know if Mayfield can do that until he gets into TC. But the Mayfield guys can roll their eyes at this all they like...if I'm an opposing defense playing against Mayfield I have my DE'S play contain, DT's get a firm push & have my back 7 stay face up in a short area zone & i dare this guy to beat me over the top..cause guess what? I don't think he can.

Just one questions however. Why does Mayfield get the benefit of the doubt w. his inflated stats pertaining to scheme/surrounding cast but Allen doesn't w. his DEFLATED stats pertaining to the same aspects? I'd like to think physical ability would be somewhat of a tie breaker within such a conflict...but somehow we're overlooking Mayfield's physical limitations & dare i say holding Allen's natural ability against him??

 

Oh puhleeze! Would you take your best player out of the game if he told you he could still play? Your anti-Mayfield bias is screaming here.

Have you ever injured - not broken - your ribs? When it feels like a hot knife stabbing you every breath you take? That you try to dismiss the severity of the pain he was likely in because he didn't have a broken rib is silly.

And yes, Georgia was great, but the fact that Mayfield almost beat them is proof that he's a gamer.

 

Did Bowles point to Baker -

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...oked-all-the-baker-mayfield-to-jets-buzz/amp/

Asked what he looks for when evaluating a college quarterback, he said, “Obviously, leadership, accuracy, toughness, intelligence.”

 

Not gonna lie. I went into this being happy w. any of the 4 QBs. But i'm so tired of the analytics bullshit surrounding mayfield & the seemingly blind bias against Allen that this article made me puke in my mouth alittle.

Looks like we wont bebeating that 8 or 9 man box anytime soon. Same old story.

 

I don't consider it anti-bias, you guys are using the injury excuse not me. Georgia changed their game up, they weren't just great in that 2nd half, they dominated Baker Mayfield. Did you hear the linebackers say, "HUMBLE YOURSELF" at the end of the game?

Considering he wasn't very effective, yes I would take him out of the game if I was the coach. Look at the possessions! Punt, Punt, TO, etc. I want to win a bowl game.

Yes, I have injured my ribs and its hard to breath w/out feeling pain, that I understand. Sometimes, you hurt your team more then helping them by staying on the field.

 

If you watch the video posted earlier in this thread by Big Cat of Allen's game against Iowa, how can you ignore his shortcomings, and not just the occasional ones?



Despite Iowa having a pretty good defense, Allen's protection was decent and he had time to throw, but many of his throws lacked touch and accuracy/placement. In addition he often simply looked at the same receiver from start to finish.

All of these things could be remedied, but not overnight, and not even with certainty. And add to that process the massive impatience of the Jets fans who are starved for a FQB, and who have seen Macc take another "physically gifted" player on speculation that he could blossom in the pros, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Maybe Allen turns into the All Pro you and others think he can be, but I doubt he'll do it in NY, maybe Cleveland or Buffalo, or even Denver, but not in the media firestorm of NY.

 

Lots of words to deny what clearly IS bias SGB. When you say, unequivocally, that "Macc didn't trade up to take Mayfield" there is absolutely no facts to back up this opinion, therefore it's simply bias. Own it.

 

And if you've ever played a sport at any level, you know you won't take yourself out of game, especially if you believe you're the best player, and certainly if the coach still believes in you. Frankly, if you don't admire Mayfield for staying in the game under those conditions, I don't know how to even discuss this any longer.

 

I understand how you feel this way.

One of the reasons I believe in Baker is Mark Sanchez actually. I can’t really think of anything Mark could do better coming out of college and Mark was close to being a solid NFL qb.

I always felt Mark’s play was elevated by those
around him in college (pros too), while it’s quite the opposite with Baker...

 

Its the coaches responsibility, not the player to make that call. All those emotional feelings you describe about believing and this, you throw that out the window. I am trying to win the game. A player never wants to leave a game, let alone a player high on competitiveness. These things happen.

The kid is tough, but like I said before he was hurting his team. You don't have to discuss it any further, you got your opinion and I got mine. I posted the game earlier in this thread and the dude was taking sacks like crazy. You are hurting your team.

 

Ruh Roh! Looks like Toilet might like Mayfield.

 

Lol Browns, make my dream come true

 

No worries man.Ill be the poster child for mayfield hate.Ive had enough of the rationalization & ignoring obvious holes in his game which are clearly up for the debate.I can’t listen to it anymore & I’ll be sick to my stomach if he’s the pick.

The mayfield crowd has ruined what should be a fun process with a month to go.But it’s not a reasonable 2 way debate.Is just making excuses & throwing out arbitrary stats & then not granting other prospects the same benefit.Im merely interested in the TRUTH & the jets finding a QB.Im not sure what the mayfield crowd is interested in then finding a false sense in security in college production & stats.

So go head mayfield lovers..hate away!

 

"Measureables" + JETS usually hasnt produced great results

 

If some ridiculous miracle happens to get Darnold to 3 then all this debating is useless

In my opinion, Darnold is clearly above Rosen/Mayfield/Allen, who are all bunched much more tightly. He plays like a taller, stronger armed Mayfield, which takes away a lot of the concerns some people have.