I do think they'll eventually be justice by a few different possible means.. 1. The patriots get caught w their pants down once again-One would think it'd be a 3 strikes & your out type of deal.Bellicheat gets a lifetime ban & Brady goes from goat to apathetic.BB gets off on defying others. He did it w Mangini warning him before spygate,he did w goodell's warning via deflate gate, & he did it w wiregate which was immediately following the deflate gate sanctions.Odds are he'll do it again. Would love to hear the pitiful excuses from Patty cake land after that.. 2.Hall of fame inductions-If Pete Rose,bonds,McGwire,palmiero & Sosa can't get in MLB..do Brady & Bellicheat get shunned?Could be a stretch but the general public feels they are cheaters & if the writers are pressured by enough of us maybe those reptiles get kept out. 3.Street justice-Those 5 rings hold weight right now bc their little run has yet to end.Winning has a habit of numbing the truth in the NFL.But once the limelight dies & they fall back to the pack what will be remembered from those trophies? I think it'll be the cheating & those asterisks will shine brighter than ever thought possible.Pat fans don't mind defying & arguing now..but wait till a few years of losing transpire & they want to gloat about their past hardware..people aren't forgetting about the cheating & arguing it will get old & fast. Sooner or later the sins of yesterday(and today in their case) catch up to you. Karma will win the day
I was so gleeful when this broke - as if it was a surprise - that I almost split my pants. Ripppppppppppp! All it did was confirm my suspicions. https://deadspin.com/bombshell-espn-report-the-patriots-were-huge-cheaters-1729286402 If anyone missed this gem when it first arrived on the scene, here's a direct link. I didn't post text to either article because they're very long. http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart Btw, the only reason Mangini has down played Spygate with all his might all these years later is because he feels like it made him a pariah, not because he believes his own line of crap. "I regret it now. I wish I could take it back. I never expected it to go where it went. I just wanted the Patriots warned. It wasn't really cheating." Um, what? Don't mind me while I kick you in the back into the Hudson River. What makes it funnier still about Cheats fans calling Mangini a rat is two-fold: 1) it somehow means the Cheats didn't Cheat and 2) Mangini learned from the Master. Yeah, sure, "everybody does it". If I speed 90 miles an hour down the highway and don't get caught it doesn't mean I didn't speed. Better yet, the Cheats got a couple of tickets from the po-po and got popped. Just sayin'. ^Yep, my Cheatiegate ticket. I still have it, alright. : )
Put the moron on ignore. Hopefully, he'll get banned soon enough, but until he does, I don't have to see his lies and BS. If he believes his own crap, then he's delusional or insane. Either way, he's not worth wasting time or energy on. Send him to oblivion.
Oh, I'm done with him. I won't bother to read any more from him unless he produces the video we've been asking for, but there will be snowball fights in hell before that happens.
^Yeah, and Brian Williams misspoke. He should've just said there was a banana peel on the field. Would've been far more credible, even without conclusive video evidence.
I'd like to bring up Sal Alosi. And Mike Tomlin. And Shula. And a ton of other incidents. The Cheats by a hundred country miles.
Al Davis,Jimmy Johnson,George Allen there are a lot of rule benders.. But I don't remember any other instance where Class guys like Marshall Faulk & LT are coming out & flat out screaming fowl play.Nor Have I ever seen something about another team as cringeworthy as what Ted Johnson was suggesting goes on. I think we can all agree that wearing stick em,or not covering a field before a game Are a far cry from using advanced espionage & other underhanded systemic tactics to know every play the opposition is running & so fourth. You watch any pats game during BB-Brady era & it all looks the same.They are winning the exact same way they did 15 years ago.And if you watch the games consciously aware that they may in fact know the other team's plays everything starts to correlate & make sense. Deflate gate was silly but for it proved that nothing had change in cheatsboro & the cover up became worse than the actual crime.If the federal proceeding had been anything meaningful & not about deflated footballs Brady would've been held in contempt of court. He destroyed critical evidence that was stilll an active part of the investigation/proceedings. The way Kraft acted was really eye opening..and gave a real intell of how warped they really are
This is Tom Brady, hold on a sec, my phone's ringing . . . wait, I don't have one! Who the F destroys a cell phone? Unless you're Gus Fring. It was an attorney move for sure. And a smart one. I'll tell ya why. I get why Brady did it from a 'privacy' stand point, but it would've been a serious waste of federal money for the FBI to subpoena his cell phone carrier for other incriminating text messages. It wasn't a murder investigation. The FBI knows when you're taking a crap, but it just wasn't worth the expense. Add to that, it would've dragged on forever and turned into a bigger case with Apple than with the San Bernadino shooter, and Google, while it spies on EVERYONE, would've said no. However, the FBI tracking down his two stolen SB jerseys was totally worth what I pay in taxes. That aside, Tom Brady downloaded his old stuff from the cloud to his new phone.
remember the stories of visiting teams having the fire alarm pulled at their hotel the night before a game lol
That still happens quite often! Happened at the Biltmore in providence while I was still going to school there..believe it was the Titans
CC, I come here in peace and not to pick a fight. . Seconds 0:22-0:24 of the video shows the "movement" in question as ASJ bounces off the turf and rolls over. Everything else prior to this point is irrelevant, just this simple singular point in time. To me the ball clearly moves. So we are left with a simple question of opinion. If ASJ controlled this movement - TD, if the jarring of hitting the ground caused ASJ to not be able to prevent the movement - call reversed, if you can not decide between the two - call stands TD. Pylons, ball not out, crossing the plane, landing in the end zone, first two of three elements of possession of a loose ball going to ground, bah bah, bah, NONE of this means anything only the final piece above as that is the last piece to the possession question. The only media outlet that reviewed this portion was NFL Primetime with the MC and Hasselback thinking not enough to decide/had control, and Saturday thinking there was movement outside of his control. I wish more folks has gone over the above as it only confuses fans to not focus attention on this part of the puzzle. CC, sometimes it makes me feel better if i know what is going on and the reason behind something. We lost to Carolina in '13 and did not get a obvious PI at the end, but ball was under thrown some, we lost a game to AZ a few years ago gronk was called for ticky tack hold on a TD for win (we missed FG and lost), this year we stopped Carolina on 3rd down late in game got a ticky tack hands to face, drive extend they win at end. I think the WR baited the call by dropping his head but we cannot have our hands high on the jersey, too risky. So for me i feel less hosed if one can see a reason, albeit slim, for the call. And also to try to execute your plays in a way so the ref can not get involved. In the end CC, it is best to execute and not let the officials get involved, so hold on to the ball and cross the plane, and maybe give some credit to defense for ripping it out as that then required ASJ to go to ground with control throughout. Thanks again for your time.
Kurt, I only came to this thread to try to help, although you guys may not all see it initially, you guys do not know me as well as others as I spend most of my time on a colts board and here and there on a Pats one. And am sorry but tend to be verbose, and thanks for taking the time to read my posts. I am not trying to really win anything. One of my pet peeves Kurt is the media folks and "experts" that claim to know the rules but at times do not get them correct and it just can cause confusion and anger fans more than necessary. For me, after I get pissed at a call but find out upon somber reflection there is some point that the NFL relied on and/or if i find out a rule dictates a certain result, I tend to get less pissed as there is a reason behind something, although at times is weak. I mentioned a few to CC in my last post. And given there was a lot of ink and talk to stuff that was not revelant, but will give an impression the NFL 100% wrong, I just wanted to throw my two cents in to say, no we need to look over here, and folks might see that the NFL is not 100% wrong but there are reason, abeit slim to some, for the call, and maybe, like me, folks might be less pissed. And yes it sucks for one to lose to a rival for a handful of ticky tack calls.
I see you has no problem with ASJ bumming into Corrente. We should endeavor to be consistent Jetaho. i do not care how you play it Jetaho, but please do not complain about Butler and not address ASJ. Both came in contact with an official as a result of their reaction to the same play.
On a similar note, just watched the KC 1st quarter Kelce TD from TNF and wondering why this was different. Kelce catches the pass in the end zone, one foot touches down straight away and he falls over in the process of completing the catch, his shoulder hits the ground and the ball appears to move as it does, as much movement as I can see when ASJ hits the ground anyway, then he rolls over with the ball ending up on his back and coming to a stop out of bounds with the ball. If ASJ's was a touchback why wasn't this? It seems very similar. I was a TD, clearly and correctly stood.
HAHAHAHA. Butler screamed in the ref's face. How is that not a problem? I realize you have to curry favor wherever you can get it, but if Jenkins screamed in the ref's face, he would've also gotten flagged. Both came in contact, you're a ref. Assumed risk. This is just a joke already.
How do you know Butler screened in the refs face? He may of been demonstrative but happens all of the time, besides he had a point, the ref called it a TD and Butler wanted to let him know he had a difference of opinion. Just as ASJ did too have a point in disbelief and there was contact, need to let them ride. Generally, there not a penalty unless there is some physical movement, like last night when Lynch move the ref.
Mo, you are 100% correct the same three elements of possession will apply (a catch and recovery of a loose ball are the same when going to the ground). Folks the video can be found here. I do not recall seeing any movement when I watched the game, but you could be right. It looks too me that he cradle the ball in his right wrist as he hits rolls out of bounds. If he as control over the movement he is okay. http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2017101900/2017/REG7/chiefs@raiders#menu=gameinfo|contentId:0ap3000000864075&tab=recap Here is a youtube version of game highlights, Kelce is at 1:44-2:08 The result of a failed possession would be different. With Kelce it would be an incomplete pass. With ASJ you have a loose ball that is out of bounds (as ASJ had a body part out of bounds while touching the ball) in the defensive zone before anyone is credited with possession and thus it is a touch back. This is basically the same thing when a loose ball goes out of bounds with no one gain possession in the field of play and it goes back to the offense at the point of the fumble. You may have seen many times a defender try to get a fumble but slides out of bounds before he gets possession and the ball goes to the offense. Interestingly, later in that game, a player, i think a chief, rolled out of bounds and landed on his stomach and the ball rolled over and they upheld the catch. I am guessing that the refs figured that the guy was injured and that the released of the ball was a voluntary second move. One is not required to control the ball forever just enough time to make a football move (to be a runner in field of play) or a momentary pause (after finishing going to the ground) . Here, he had the ball, then rolled over and then released the ball, long enough time to hold for the refs i guess. Oh and one more point getting back to Kecle. One can bobble the ball as you are sliding out of bounds. The key thing is one must have secured the ball before you touch out of bounds. One does not get credit for control until you demonstrate control and keep if thereafter. So the latest point is the one you get credit, and if you are still in bounds and down (here Kelce torso on ground) then you are okay if he secured it at that point and maintain control thereafter. One time a saw a guy sliding out of bounds on his back while the ball was moving and he finally secured it to his chest an inch before he slide out of bounds. The NFL's point about ASJ was that he did not secured at the time his shoulder hit out of bounds as he fell, and they thought it still moved without control and thus we look to the latest point, when is stops moving, in the NFL's opinion was when he was on his back out of bounds..
