Unless you think acknowledging minorities are unfairly treated/perceived as more of a threat than white people is racist, I'm not sure why you think Obama's politics were racist. I'd say that Obama tried to distance HIMSELF from race, buying into the this idea of race less societies that other democrats do as well, when he campaigned in 2008. I'm speaking in general here: but addressing the issue of race is not "stirring up the fire" nor is it "race baiting", you have to be honest, and full in the explanation of the racial injustices in this country. If it's going to be fixed, it needs to talked honestly, period. I don't really expect people who have never encountered or have had to deal with racism in their lives, be racially profiled etc, to understand the full extent of I and others minorities in this country endure. What enrages me is, however, to see people, including one person in this thread tell, me that systematic racism is dead. Players like Kam Chancellor, Michael Bennent(who while already being detained by a officer, where he was no threat whatsoever, had a gun pointed at him and was told that he had have his head blown off if he made the slightest movement, and NBA players: https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-911-calls-jeweler-racial-profiling/74693584/ Yea, these rich players may not be dealing with economic oppression, but because of their skin color, they are perceived as a threat in a way much larger than you or your counter parts will most likely ever be. A threat that no amount of money will ever be able to remove. I've read your posts and I think that you're coming from a good place. Obviously slavery and the foundations of this country is why African Americans are on average much poorer than whites and others and have the perception that they do today. The root cause of it has/still in many ways continues to be systematic injustice. And by now we should have long been advanced, but over the last 55 years it has completely stifled. I also agree that in the long run that should be the goal- fighting poverty and all that comes with it. That's what will fix the larger problem, beyond police brutality, at large gradually in the future.
Jerry Jones comes out a winner in all this. Even though he had a shit eating grin on his face and decided to play both sides well, he won with both Goodell and the players and Trump. He also had the advantage of seeing how everyone else reacted all day and choosing the best of both worlds.
It's sort of the chicken or the egg debate. Police brutality numbers are much higher and lower with certain races, genders and demographics but for the reason that those specific demographics have demonstrated that they are that much more likely to commit a violent crime. That doesn't automatically make anyone who is a part of a certain demographic, a criminal or not a criminal. Police need to get that out of their head of course. But that doesn't mean that when they enter a certain neighborhood or street that they shouldn't proceed with a different sort of caution that they may not necessarily proceed with in a different area. It's also frustrating tha ALL police officers are painted with a broad stroke of all being these trigger happy murderers. In reality it's such a small percentage. Police officers definitely need to be vetted more and trained for much longer. I heard a case in my town of a former class mate of mine that upon leaving the military was instantly a assistant chief or whatever the title is as the Chief of Police's right hand man, because his father is the Chief. So they begs the question. Do we need to reform police training methods as much as people think? Especially if the training methods are only spitting out a few bad seeds. I feel for police officers sometimes. And the fact that there's no public outrage for example when they get shot, is disgusting. We barely heard about the police officer that got shot in the face in Westchester the other day. Yet when a citizen gets shot the legacy of their incident can drag on for years, even decades in Rodney King's case. Luckily Kayla Mahler survived. But barely anyone is talking about this incident. With that being said, I have this discussion with my friends a lot. Mind you we're a group of white dudes with one Hispanic guy, one Asian guy, one white Jewish and then the rest white anglo-saxon guys. We all agree that something needs to change. How do you create that change? One of the options we discussed was some sort of longer range weapon that has incapacitating capabilities without having a deadly component to it. You may say tasers, but stun guns don't have great range and in certain cases depending on the size of the person they can literally just eat that stun gun. Aren't there any sort of weapons that can fire rubber pellets or bean bags or something to incapacitate who police officers deem to be a threat?
That's why it's best for the status quo if the middle stays in disagreement and just getting by. Let the working class come together with enough time to force change and change there will be. Unfortunately they got us right where they want us.
who did I insult? I understand what you say when you talk of adrenaline and it's effects. I would hope that law enforcement agencies can provide training which assist officers deal with adrenaline effects de-escalation, open critical incident debriefing, clinical supervision for what being exposed to the grim realities of intervening in violence and the messes of other people's making. I'm a probation officer who has worked with offenders for 20 years. Primarily sex offenders and domestic violence perpetrators but also those who have killed other and those who have significant mental illness and psychological damage. I believe firmly it is my training and overarching principle that all are treated with respect and openness is an aspect where I have never yet sustained more than a bloody nose.
You guys dont get enough respect for all that you have to do. People assume you sit in an office all day but you dont. You have to go out and see people too. These people can be just as dangerous. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
pretty much at the point where zace goes on ignore, only had to click on the name and "ignore" - wow that was easy and the site is usable again
Oh well im sure im not missing anything from you. Not sorry you got your feelings hurt. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
I think in general that people are mostly supportive of cops and paint them in better lights. Social media and the internet can probably skew the perception of that and while I respect what these cops do, the adulation of police officers can become a problem in our judicial system- where jurors are more likely to believe a cop, simply because he is cop, rather than evaluating the case with objectivity. And when you include implicit bias that people may have towards certain races because of crime rates or media perception, that's how officers get off crimes consistently.. Put simply, they become star struck Violence towards cops( or the threat of violence towards them is a reality that must faced. is a risk that is just naturally ingrained in the job. The standards we have for citizens in general is not equivalent to the standards we have for law enforcement or those in authority- at least that should be the case.. The police are to be among the gold standard of , nobleness, and objectivity- they've been granted the special privilege of protecting citizens- that's why they are held to higher standards than citizens who attack them. They are to be trustworthy, clearly, we don't imbue society with these same expectations s or they would obviously be no need for the police. Systematically, too often we have cops that abuse their powers,, that are not punished and relieved of duty immediately after their first incident. Instead, there's a growing pattern here- where cops notoriously complained about are ONLY punished until they inflict near-death damages to an individual or kill them. You mention Rodney King and that is a textbook issue of part of the problem; the police particularly in case in which they are to be accused of committing crime, obviously, have a penchant for covering for themselves and or fabricate incidents as to justify their incidents and their counterparts who are theoretically supposed to be good cops, for a number of reasons, are complicit and aid them in accomplishing this deal. Rodney King gets brought up consistently, because what happened to him and those officers who are acquitted, still continues to happen today without any signs of it slowing down. Policy needs to be drafted in such a way where we almost assume that the police are not trustworthy, because history shows in the case of police brutality, that the last thing the police will be is honest. In addition, we don't exactly have concrete data from every police department in the nation in regards to police brutality. we have information that suggests/confirms that race certainly plays a role in your treatment by officers, but it is still limited and prevents us from exactly knowing the full extent of how many people are killed by the police each year . I don't even believe that officer on the ground, but with the system above them. It's very possible and likely common that people were otherwise ethical and noble fall into the pit falls of stereotypes, implicit bias, and dishonorable behavior because of the system. Like you, I don't have the answer for how to fix the entire problem piece by piece, but I'd like to believe that we have had enough experts who do have a solution.
Obama and race in 2008 is much different than Obama and race in 2013 and beyond. And systematic racism is far from dead. But you can't champion the democrats on that. They are full of shit, and rule over the cities where the problems are the worst . I can understand why people wouldn't like trump. But to think Hillary was some better option. She paraded the "mothers of the movement " around on stage for votes . Then the government bought their kids with a check. They had voter registration at stands during protests trying to get people to register democrat. Now that the election is over , we haven't ha any high profile police shootings rule the news for weeks on end. There was just one in Huntington Beach that a year and a half ago they would have been shoving down our throats. But instead, they have taken to inciting anthem kneeling and other forms of post trump manufactured temper tantrums.
For the last 2 or 3 years, people have been going out and purposely murdering cops. Sitting in their cars eating,leured to a call, purposeful traffic stop set up. Do t say that's what they signed up for.
The fact that you're only concerning about police brutality if it only is considered profile is part of the problem- for as awful as something we see documented on video, there are people having their rights infringed upon similar to that EVERYDAY. And the protests tarted well before Trump was elected President. And I'm not championing the democrats- they too have contributed largely. to the issue and remain complicit in the face of these injustices that are occurring.
I said that? Society QUITE clearly holds police in higher esteem, given the jobs we give them of protecting society, than we do for the normal everyday civilian American. That's the main reason why people are more outraged by the police's act of violence. They of ALL people should theoretically be above these acts. They are entrusted with an incredible amount of power that most citizenswill never even come close to touching.
Funny, I thought only 4 players were kneeling before the President deciding to call the SOB's out. Then there were over 200 kneeling. Seems to me he might be the one inciting them.
Incredible. Trump tells the SOB's to stand and these snowflake players are so appalled and offended. Please didn't you get called much MUCH worse growing up at football practice year after year?
If we, the middle class, weren't fighting about something as dumb as color, we could unite and force some change. Unfortunately, the media in conjunction with the Republicans and Democrats make sure that color remains top of mind so we all keep fricken arguing and unfortunately killing each other.
Obama was no centrist and is a true liberal who was divisive also. Perhaps I have not stated my political opinion enough here. I hate both conservatives and liberals. I find them both divisive and unproductive. If I had my way, I would like to start a new party and call it the American party. A party that believes in a stronger middle class, better education, efficient government, and true free speech. Some of my philosophies go back to the days of Rome. I have no problem with rich people getting rich as long as the middle class is taken care off. If you study history, you will notice that all revolts and revolutions typically are due to the middle class exercising them. Examples include the Baath party in Iraq, the French revolution, the Bolshevik revolution, the Nazis in Germany, Cuba's revolution, and even the American Revolution. Try to understand the point here is that rich elite types in all these cases got a rude awakening. I am not endorsing everyone of these revolutions but only trying to point out that Thomas Jefferson was right when he said I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, The people who run this country are familiar with this fact and they are trying their best to weaken the middle class. Its about time the middle class scares the shit out of the elite instead of being manipulated by them. Yes this might require violence but I am hoping it will not. Someone who is fortunate enough to be rich should serve this country and be loyal or otherwise be replaced. For these type of ideas to take hold, people need to start educating themselves about history again, stop believing everything they hear from all media, and get more involved in government. They need to get of their lazy asses and maybe a good place to start would be your own local government. Ok I will shut up now before I get into further trouble.
I myself have suffered from racism or prejudice growing up as a child in Boston. Both my parents were foreigners and I came to this country when I was just 1 year old. I can't say what my family and I went through was the same as African Americans, but I had to defend myself from many Irish bullies growing up. I hated the Irish very much then, but when I got older and I studied their history and it became obvious to me, they the Irish were treated horribly in Britain and America. I came to the realization then that racism begets racism. I now have no hate at all towards Irish people today and I can actually sympathize for their past plight. I have also seen extreme racism towards blacks back in the early 70's in Boston during the so called busing days. Forget the N word, back then whites and blacks were literally killing each other for no reason. I could explain to you why Trump sucks, but you seem to already know that. His act is nothing new, look up George Wallace's playbook. He is a southern Democrat in Republican clothes. As to Obama do you realize his father being a Kenyan African man actually looked down on American blacks because they were not 100% black? I only say that because Obama obviously had some issues with his father because of that. Do you really think Obama was so naïve not to notice the racist nature of Reverend White when he was a member of that church? Whenever there was a racial incident involving police, he would always side against the police before all the facts were presented (i.e. Zimmerman). This didn't stir the pot? Sorry if I sound like Dr. Phil, but Obama has some issues being black and he has been trying to prove to himself that he is black his whole life. The biggest problem facing the black community is crime and economics, yet lets focus our attention on cops? Isn't this a race pandering game? When people are told they are racist because they disagree is this productive? Terms like white privilege are thrown about towards people who really are not that privileged at all. You don't have to be a genius to see the left with these tactics and the right with folks like Trump are trying to start a race war! That way people will ignore how they are really being screwed. I am very frustrated that I can't get both liberals and conservatives to the see the light. This is like the WWF wrestling where the politicians make their deals on how the wrestling match is to be scripted and we dumb wrestling fans fight over which wrestler should win. Who knows maybe I am the crazy person here. Maybe I should just give up and try to make money with the situation like all the other jerks.
There was an incident in my area where a police officer got into a scuffle with a off duty prison guard in the streets. I can't remember the reason but it was stupid. The prison guard punched the officer who unluckily fell the wrong way and died. There was another incident where an off duty cop was shot by his own police force for not properly identifying himself as a cop with a gun supposedly. Another incident where a women who was cuffed and on the ground was repeatedly kicked and beaten. Perhaps this is a bad analogy, but you train the police and law enforcement like you train attack dogs. This makes them very dangerous but if you don't train them properly in the restraint area your going to have problems. However, if you are to passive you will also fail in your job. So there is a delicate balance here. In many urban areas where budgets are tight, there really is no money to really properly train law enforcement and do all the things you mention. These are the same areas where minorities tend to live so you don't have to be a genius to see something wrong will happen. Being in the field you must know this. So why isn't the media and the politicians bringing this up? Isn't this the real problem? I hope for your sake your luck continues and you never find yourself in a ugly predicament.
