It was not most career tackles, where ever you got the info may have been saying most career sacks but that number is misleading since he got 19 sacks in 2 years at a junior college and the other 25.5 sacks in 2 years at a Div 1-AA. I know Juqua Parker had 29 sacks in 2 years at a JUCO before transferring to Oklahoma St but couldn't pull up his stats there. Looks like he would have been able to challenge for most sacks. Terrell Suggs had 44 sacks in 3 years, Div II Marc Schiechl had 46 career sacks and Mike Czerwien had 53.5 sacks in 3 years.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, because my memory may be faulty, but I think I remember reading that in reports from OTAs and mini-camp Donohue has been on the field with the starters a lot and looking good. Of course, expectations must be tempered, but it's hard for me NOT to get excited because it's been so long since we've had an edge rusher that showed any real potential at all. He may prove to be yet another disappointment, but after all, he was only a 5th round pick, so the disappointment shouldn't be so great.
I gotta disagree. I think it's silly to say that the rebuild is over once one finds one's FQB. Even if everything else was in place (which it's definitely not with the Jets), it still takes young QBs 2-3 years to develop and be able to consistently play at a high level. As Tony pointed out, the Jets still have some issues that are questionable at best, if not downright serious. The object isn't to build an "OK" team. It's to build a championship team. Nothing else should be acceptable. The OL is questionable at several spots. Their two best spots are the OG positions, but Winters' spot could be upgraded and Carpenters' may be able to be as well. Wesley Johnson is a question mark and so is Shell/Qvale. At best, they are probably only passable. Forte has little tread left on his tires. While I love Powell, he's not a #1 or workhorse-type RB, and can wear down due both to his age and size. You may prefer a lot of WRs to one stud (and so do I), but I don't think it's one or the other. A stud WR can help young QBs a lot. I feel really good about the TE position, but until ASJ stays sober and healthy, it's just speculation and potential. Leggett is talented, but will he work hard to become a good blocker? Does he have the drive to excel, or will he be "lazy" and just do enough to get by? Lee has potential to be an excellent player for us at ILB, but until he steps up and shows how much he has learned/improved, it's still just "potential." I'm excited to see what Greene can do with our OLBs, particularly Donohue, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. I would have thought Jenkins would have been one solid starter that would set the edge and apply some pressure on opposing QBs, and he still may be, but in OTAs and mini-camp, he was running with the 2nd string. Claiborne is likely to only be here this year. Even if Burris develops into a solid #2 CB (which is not a sure thing), the Jets will still need a #1 CB who can shut down opponents' #1 WR. It's also not as simple as saying that players already on the roster need to step up. Hopefully, they will, but "hope" doesn't mean that they will. They may not have the talent or heart or be playing in the right system or for the right CS for that to happen. We'll know a lot more after this season, but at this point, I think it's incredibly premature to say that once the Jets find their FQB the rebuild is over.
A lot of pieces are in place already. They are just VERY inexperienced. A lot of players need to develop. That's what this year is for. Look at the history of young QBs, a lot of them get into the SB in their 2nd year starting. Dan Marino, Russell Wilson, etc. Wilson was playing at a high level from the get-go. Granted he had a very good team around him that developed very quickly. My obvious point is the build a championship team and that requires a CORE of players that you draft. That core is almost complete; but those players require further development. To me, the Jets lack an EDGE rusher and a left tackle to complete the CORE. Especially if the young players step up. Running backs are a dime a dozen, you can find one in any round that can contribute. I think the offensive line outside of LT is fine. The guard positions are solidified. Winters is going to be here and Carpenter is a solid G. I think Shell will be a long-term starter at RT. From there, you find maybe a swing tackle to come off the bench. That is not part of the CORE, I speak of. The core consists of players that fill in impact positions. QB, EDGE, LT, Interior Lineman, linebacker and Safety. Not really worried about the running game right now, I like where it is. I like the youngsters we have at receiver. We have a stud in Enunwa, I hope he takes the next step, he's shown the ability to beat #1 corners like a Gilmore and a Malcolm Butler. I really like the 2 TEs we have that will help Hack develop. A TE is a QB's best friend. Again, I did mention above that the Jets still lack a full time EDGE rusher, the CORE is not complete yet, but the Jets are a few pieces away. From there, there needs to be development. I do not believe in needing a shutdown cornerback, never have. I really like Claiborne and Burris as 2 outside corners, but good safeties can always cover corners' deficinces and I think Jamal Adams will be a game changer. Lee is a cover linebacker, I think he will step up as well. He was in position to make plays but needs to start finishing them. Players need to step up, but I think the Jets are developing a core of young players. If Hack steps up along with the guys mentioned above, the rebuild is absolutely over, this however is all dependant on player development and I think Bowles has done a decent job at this. CORE: Hack (QB) Leonard Williams (DT) Wilkerson (DT) Lee (Linebacker) Jamal Adams (Safety) MISSING CORE POSITIONS: EDGE LT These 7 are the 7 you pay. The rest, you look to fill via draft and FA. EDIT - Another receiver can be acquired, but I think Enunwa / Anderson and Hansen with the 2 TEs could be decent for the Jets.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think that some of the core is in place, but imo the core is or needs to be more than just the 7 players/positions you list. I also disagree that a lot of the pieces are in places, that they are just VERY inexperienced. I agree that they're very inexperienced, but until they get that experience, you don't really know if they will be a "piece" going forward. They're "potential" pieces now, but not definite. I hope you're right, but think you're wrong about the rushing attack and the OL. Claiborne is unlikely to stay here long term, and even if he does, will he be able to stay on the field? IMO the #1 CB absolutely needs to be a part of the core players. A team's core needs more on the offensive side of the ball than just the QB and LT.
I mean look at the great teams in the past, for example the 2003 New England Patriots. They didn't have GREAT players at WR or even at RB, just guys that did their job. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_New_England_Patriots_season There are about 7 or 8 players on that list that you look at and you see that they were with the team for several years that played integral roles, they were a core set of players. They then acquired or built around those players while looking for young talent. Brady Matt Light Bruschi Law Harrison Willie McGinest Seymour Kevin Faulk(?) Those 7/8 players stood the test of time on a team where you are usually gone a year too early. They won multiple titles. Personally I would rather have 2 good safeties over a shutdown corner, but you can't pay all of them right? So who are you going to pay?
The anomaly with the Pats is that they have a HOF QB and a HOF HC that knows how to identify players that he can develop, knows how to develop them, and put them in a position to succeed. We don't have those things. It will take more for us. I'd rather have two good safeties over a shutdown corner, but again, I don't think it's a matter of either/or. As to paying them all, NE manages to. It's a matter of when pieces are added, so that some are under cheap rookie contracts while others are on expensive 2nd contracts. It's also a matter of developing a pattern of winning so that players want to be there and are willing to put team first in order to win and thus are willing to play for less.
I don't see it. If Hack steps up and proves to be FQB, we're not going to be drafting at the top . So we won't get the mega deal in the draft. ( Of course the fan base will be posting off the wall scenarios like this year's where the Brown's give us the 12, two seconds, 3,4, and next year's one and 2 to move up 6 spots.) Look at the core, Leonard Williams and Jamal Adams are the 2 players that seem to be players to build around. Wilkerson has alot to prove going into the season. The WR corps are young but there is no legitimate#1 on the roster. A few complementary players who would be great behind a stud receiver. No edge rush at all. Corner back, Claiborne if healthy, but a FA after the season. RB , Forte will be 32 before the season ends, Powell 29 in OCT. We know he can carry the load. TE also a major ? Can ASJ stay sober? Can he learn the playbook? That's what doomed him in Tampa and what kept him off the field last year. Can Leggette learn to block, will he try? Where is the depth if one of the very few core players go down. I agree you don't need pro bowl players at ever position but you do need top tier players and pro bowl level players mixed in to every group to contend. Your reply to NC regarding the 03 Patriots listing a core of 8 players. 7 of the 8 we're multiple times pro bowl players plus 3 or 4 other multiple pro bowlers you left out of the core from that roster. We currently have a no pro bowlers ,other than Williams as an alternate. With the money available next year, I'm sure we could sign enough FAs to contend for a WC spot. Still won't win a Superbowl and by the time the young players are ready, we will be cap poor, releasing the vet FAs and back to the basement. Can't just keep repeating the same cycle that has repeatedly failed If we draft a QB with the first pick next year, is the rebuild over? Honestly my biggest fear is that Hackenberg shows improvement , enough that the franchise wants to continue to develop him and the fan base implodes when they pass on a QB in round 1.
Your right about Greene lobbying hard for him. He was a key factor in our drafting him. Your confusing him with Connor Harris our UDFA inside LB though. Harris is the NCAA all time tackle leader.
I actually kind of agree that the "Rebuild" label will go by the wayside if Hack ascends. That's not to say that the expectations should be Super bowl or that the roster is anywhere close to set. Rather..I know it's hard in NY..especially considering so many love baseball & often correlate that style of team building to that of football.I know nobody wants to hear it but football games are not. won. on. paper. That's the one thing about the patriots that I respect; There have been many years where on paper they looked average at best beyond Brady & acouple other marquee names. But they don't let the perceived hole at Right tackle, Free safety or where ever the hell else stop them from demanding a high standard of play on the field.Of course it helps having the FQB who fits the system perfectly...and of course all the Ernie Banks cheat sheets. But they let the off season be the off season. Do you need to have a certain level of talent & a core in place to succeed? Of course you do. Are the jets there yet? Not right now. But..the table maybe better set than folks realize. It is a young man's league. If any team is gonna make a sizable climb up the pecking order chances are it's coming in the type of scenario the Jets currently are in: A bunch of young prospects, many of whom have playing/system experience under their belt ascending into prominent roles. Now chances are we'll need to flood the depth chart w. another draft or 2 of well regarded prospects before we really make the leap but it makes no sense to wave a white flag based off a bunch of names on a depth chart who we really don't know alot about. The media does it...but I think we're all sort of past their Jets bashing shtick. Emphasize the system,give the players a formula for winning,stay aggressive within player development & hope for the best. Even if the team falls short or even completely falls apart; There are many players on this roster who will be here for the long haul. What kind of message does it send to them that the org & fan base are seemingly "Waiting" multiple seasons to express sizable expectations?? The days of having a truly stacked roster are long long gone. Every single team has needs. At some point a team sinks or swims. And chances are it's not the overall talent assembly that brings the lombardi home.The Jets systemic issues are MENTAL. Turnovers, situational breakdowns, miscommunications, pre snap penalties, misalignments...so on & so fourth. Additionally...there is no fortitude or stamina. In other words...they go down by 10 on the road & they mail it in. Now..do roster moves improve this? Of course they can. But we've seen so many names come & go...there's no way to dig out of this hole than to buckle down & show some balls on the football field. Let the off season be the offseason. Forget the roster for a second & come to grips that the biggest reshape that needs to take place is the elimination of silly self inflicted wounds that plague this team far more than perceived.
But Brady wasn't a HOF QB yet, and Belichick wasn't known to be a HOF coach at that time. Whose to say Hack and Bowles don't eventually develop into elite level QB and coach? Yes, we can laugh at Bowles being an elite level HC one day.
In terms of the bold, why not? Carr went 3-13 in his first year, Mariota? 3-9. It's possible the Jets get a top 5 draft pick and still gets a QB of the future in Hack. It's hard to win in the NFL. The 2nd bold, none of those other players stayed on that team for long did they? How many came in for a few seasons and left? Were they truly part of the CORE that stayed? Corey Dillion wasn't a core player for example, he was there and then he left a few seasons later. Again, though the Jets CORE of players haven't been fully assembled yet. However, again this entire convo is theoretical, dependant on the improve of the young players I mentioned above. If Hack is the guy, he needs to really show the ability to make his teammates around him better. If Hack does this, the rebuild is essentially over, you survive probably this last bad season get a high pick, do what you need to do with it, maybe you turn it into a few 1sts and some 2nds. Then you find that LT, and EGE rusher. You can compliment the core with role players that at best are there for a few years.
AMEN! If the Jets continue to simply try and make the playoffs and consider that a "success", I will find another team after 55 years.
The bolded quote at the end of your post is exactly what I was referring to. If Hack proves to be the FQB, we won't be picking very high. Now we're turning that pick into a FEW first and a Some seconds? Our roster is one of the worst in the league. The only team with as little talent is possibly the 49ers. I don't think we're likely to agree on this , but I'd prefer for you to be right and the young players all develop quickly . That would be the best scenario going forward.
But they both WERE HOF'ers even if at that point they hadn't proven it. They possessed the ability and qualities that made them great over time. I don't see Hack or Bowles having that ability.
Yeah that's the part I don't understand, just because Hack is a FQB, doesn't mean the Jets won't be picking high. Winning is hard in this league, especially for a young roster. Our roster at this time is very questionable, it could go 2 ways. If Hack is the guy and a Josh Allen is available, you don't think the Jets could take a top 5 pick and get a 1st in 2018 and a 1st in 2019 along with a 2nd rounder? It's OK that we aren't agreeing, that's why we have these discussions! I want to understand your side as well.
