The Dunces Have Elected A Dunce

And racist Ron finally shows his true colors.

 

Except my position didn't have anything to do with a "but Obama" argument other than it reveals your hypocrisy, which was my position. You are either concerned with policies that hurt people or you aren't. Once you start arguing "but it hurt less people" then your absolute concern about policies that hurt people actually disintegrate into concern simply for people who you choose to give importance to. The other people...tough shit.

 

If your words "What you have with this healthcare bill is the same thing Obama did with passing Obamacare" isn't a "but Obama" argument I don't know what is.

I'm not being hypocritical. I've never denied that every policy has winners and losers, and you have to pick who wins and who loses. That's the definition of politics: who gets what, when and how. I give priority to those who need help the most.

Before Obamacare, the winners were those who had private health insurance, and the losers were those who didn't. Obamacare gave health insurance to tens of millions who didn't have it before. At the same time, it raised premiums for some people who had it and forced some people to change or even lose their private health insurance. IMO the pros of Obamacare outweigh the cons, you're free to differ.

OTOH, Trumpcare would take away insurance from tens of millions of people (and here's the key point) without giving it to anyone who doesn't currently have it. The only people who win are the rich, who get a big tax cut, and healthy individuals who may see lower premiums. However, the lower premiums for healthy people will come at the expense of impossibly high premiums for people with preexisting conditions. Again, I give priority to those who need help the most. Trumpcare does the opposite, benefiting rich people and healthy people at the expense of poor people, working-class people, and sick people.

 

Yes, that's a good foot soldier. Rob from the middle class to give to the poor, so you can eliminate the middle class and simply have one large group of poor who will depend on the government for their livelihood and vote for the party that promises to continue to oppress, I mean support them.

 

That's a blatant mischaracterization of Obamacare, my post, and my views. I don't know if you're aware, but there were a lot of middle class people who didn't have health insurance before Obamacare and who will lose their health insurance without it. I'll have private health insurance coming out of college now because of the work I've put in to get it, but my family are among them.

 

Any system that provides for those who don't have still must be equitable for those who do. Obamacare does not and robs from Peter to pay Paul. Just because you benefit does not make it s good system, anymore than the wealthy arguing Trumpcare is a good system because they benefit.

If it's not equitable then it's a failure and Obamacare is not equitable. Not only that, but it was passed for the same motivation as Trumpcare -- for the party in power to tell their voters they did it, regardless of its quality.

 

I disagree with the bolded statement. First, very few policies, if any at all, can benefit a group of people without hurting anyone else. Can you think of any examples? I'm not sure I can. Second, there's no reason an alternative policy can't be allowed drawbacks (that is, creating winners without creating any losers) when the status quo is full of them. Also, according to your logic, Trumpcare is automatically a failure solely because it creates winners and losers. So are all of Trump's policies (and Obama's and Bush's, etc.). I say Trumpcare is a failure, not because it creates winners and losers, but because the cons so dramatically outweigh the pros. That's not the case with Obamacare, where there isn't a clear answer regarding the pros and cons.

 

Really well put.

I have no skin in this game, I have excellent insurance through my wife's employer and like everyone else, I can't possibly know what's buried in thousands of pages of arcane legislation. But reading the NYTs howling about this like it's some crime against humanity is laughable.

 

Truncate basically is a crime against humanity.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

You're lying to yourself if you think the ACA didn't make healthcare worse for some people. If you had any credibility, you lose it with blanket statements that are flat out wrong.

http://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/worst-states-in-america-for-obamacare-premiums.html/?a=viewall

 

There was a question in your racist diatribe?

 

Affordability wasn't the problem with healthcare in our country. It was affordable. It simply permitted discrimination of coverage.

Sure, the poor in our country may not have been able to afford it but that's not a reasonable benchmark to define affordability. Creating a system that reduces affordability for the middle class simply to create low price/reduced coverage policy for the poor, then telling the middle class that the low price/reduced coverage now available is a rational alternative is insane. Yes, shitty insurance is now available at a low price, and the middle class can afford it, but stripping them of affordable insurance that covers more wasn't what was sold.

The ACA made insurance unaffordable to retain similar coverage. Only the most dishonest of people, like Ron, would point to the reduced coverage insurance at a lower price and argue that is an equitable trade off of affordability.

 

I never used the ACA, or Medicaid and don't plan on it for the future... Also MA has had it's own health connector for years as it has been illegal to not have health insurance for as long as I can remember.

From my understanding, there are states out there that premiums are raising up to 300 percent, and they only have one provider option (and potentially 0 if some states where health ins companies are saying they are pulling out of the program in that state). A lot of these increases are covered by tax credits, but there can be scenarios (IE making too much money) where someone is not eligible for credits and are having to pay in full these increases.

It's a pretty tough pill to swallow when you can get fined a pretty hefty amount while being priced out of insurance at the same time.

 

Having always had healthcare through jobs, I don't know much about paying for my own healthcare. But people complaining about the ACA costing them a fortune remind me of the spoiled kids in California complaining about college tuition going from like $1k a year to $2k a year while the rest of the population pays a fortune.

 

At a company I used to worked at, ACA caused their health insurance to go from 5-7k per year to over 17k per year for family plans. For me, for an individual plan,it would was stupid high.... I don't remember how much though

I have been a part of the MA health connecter since then and will be until I'm married in August to a RN.

 

Warren Buffet basically came out and called for socialized medicine given the enormous drain health care spending causes American businesses.

 

I have my company's most expensive plan and I pay a little over $100 per paycheck. I had a $250 deductible, everyone I want is covered, 100% coinsurance after my deductible, prescriptions are reasonable. I'm using the crap out of it this year.