I just read a few different mocks that have us trading down to 12 to get Howard plus an extra round 2 (and in two of them a round 2 next year as well). Browns take Trubisky. We get our Witten/Graham style security blanket on offence plus extra picks in hand. Not terrible. My gut still agrees with you Adams or Hooker.
IF we stay at 6 it will be Hooker, Howard, or Williams. This is assuming Adams and Fournette are gone. If we are at 12... no telling.
go on draftbreakdown and watch Elliot play during the college playoffs, then watch Fournette play period. One is significantly better then the other at catching and pass protecting. Collins is a strong safety. Here type in "all pro strong safety landon collins" in google and see what you find. There is a pure difference between strong safeties and free safeties. I hope you knew the difference prior to this argument. Also Andrew Adams / Leon Hall was playing center field. C'mon dude, now you are just making stuff up. Don't be ignorant.
3 guys I think are going to be monsters in the NFL - OJ Howard and Corey Davis on offense and Reddick on defense.
so PFF (the same site that grades every player) is now no longer a trusted source because you watched a highlight reel? they gave him a grade of 97 in pass protections. fournette ran a different offense he didn't get that many opportunities but did well in a limited sample size. on top of that, peterson has never been known for being a good receiver and he's still been the best back in the NFL for nearly a decade. ID why you are so against him for collins like you say, watch the film. NFL can't list players right, they fuck up hybrid players positions all the time. like you say, watch the film. clearly you didn't watch a single game of collins or you would know he played a majority of snaps at FS. in 2015 he was only FS in 2016 since they drafted thompson (a pure FS) he played a more hybrid role. even the giants own GM considered him a "safety" as he can play both positions. even in college when clinton dix went down they moved him to FS until clinton dix got back. He's a versatile player with the skill set of both. how many SS do you know of that play CB, cover WRs from the safety position, and get 5 INTs in a season?
I like that option as well. if we get lucky howard could fall to us at 12. If not though it could be a rough spot to pick in. we may have williams available which would be nice but i do like the young talent we have at WR but we don't have a true 1 and williams could be that. Lattimore or humphrey could fall out of the top 10 but the CBs of late have been busts alot in the 1st round. even 2 of our own (milliner and wilson) cam robinson could be a decent pick as well but i'm not really in love with the players that would be there at 12 most likely. but the extra picks could be huge. I'd trade the 6 to cleveland and richardson for their 12th, 2nd round (1st) 3rd round (1st) and a late pick next year (4th round maybe)
I don't trust PFF. If you don't want to watch the games on Collins and know for a fact he is not a center field safety, I don't know what to tell you. He is not the same style safety as a Malik Hooker or Earl Thomas. Watch some tape and compare their playing styles. What you fail to realize as well is Giants had injuries to the safety position his rookie year and Collins was playing out of position. Coverage is not his best trait. It's the intermediate / middle of the field and in the box. That is not a free safety.
LMAO don't trust PFF then your hopeless. it's pretty much the best known site by far for grading player performance. as far as collins as i said I watched every giants and jets game over the past almost 30 years never missing one. I've seen every professional NFL game collins has played in. every down every snap. I'll make it easy for you look at all the plays he's making 20-40 yards off the LOS that's not how a SS plays. look where he's lined up most of the time and how he's taking steps back and watching the QB or even covering WRs and Deep zones.
I completely agree! The pick should be either Hooker, Williams, Howard, Adams or Fournette. I would be shocked if it wasn't one of those 5. Absolutely shocked!
No I don't trust pff cause the blindly had Winters as the best pass protect guard. Pff does not take into full consideration the other lineman and who was responsible for what responsibility therefore I take it with a grain of salt. http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/04/landon_collins_will_be_a_safety_not_a_linebacker_f.html Now, he is a versatile safety but not in the mold of Hooker. His best strengths are in the box. That is a much different strength skillset. For a guy that watches the Giants you sure do lack the intelligence. Lmao YouTube highlights.
from your article you posted (becuase apparently you can't read and are trying to cherry pick to not be wrong when you are) "I don't [see him changing] at all," Giants secondary coach/safeties David Merritt said. "Landon is a safety. He's one of those guys we can put in the box when we need to complement the linebackers, but at the same time Landon Collins, in my opinion, is doing a better job of backpedalling, he's doing a better job of trying to read the concepts as a deep defender and therefore I don't see him moving to 'backer at all." another article when reese was asked if collins would be a FS or SS he replied ""I just see [Collins] as a safety. One or the other has to come down into the box at some point and they have to go back and play coverage at some point. I think he's just a versatile safety."" he plays a hybrid like position. much like Richardson did for us playing DE, DT and OLB or even enunwa playing WR and TE. or think ty montgomery playing WR and RB some players are just talented and can play multiple positions and get used both ways. He's not a typical SS where he only plays in the box and covers short routes and the middle of the field, but he's not a typical FS playing only deep. he played SS, FS, and CB last year and made the probowl and was runner up for DPOTY doing it. and he was a 2nd round pick. just give up man.
Good your catching on. Now is Landon Collins in the same FREE SAFETY mold as Earl Thomas, Ed Reed and possibly Malik Hooker? All first rounders? TRUE CENTERFIELDERS? I capped that so you'll understand. This is not about versatility. Read what the article says and while you are at it name a true FS that plays in the box and has a linebacker role on the team.
if we would have drafted collins he would be a full time 100% free safety and with pryor at SS. players move positions in systems it's basic knowledge that someone with 15k posts on a forum like you should know. I shouldn't have to explain that out. and i'm sure you know it, your just trying to prove a point through complete and utter BS instead of just saying "ok collins is an exception to the rule" in which case yes i would by that. plus you ignore 2nd rounder eric weddle as well who plays 100% free safety and made the pro bowl last year and 4th rounder kerry rhodes (ex jet) who made the probowl at FS with the jets and cards. and 2nd round jarius byrd who made several pro bowls also at FS.
Lmao at this hypothetical bullshit. At the end of the day the ALL TIME GREATS like Ed Reed, Earl Thomas [Hooker comparisons] were first rounders. Kerry Rhodes and Byrd are they HOF / all pro players? Nah budddddy. Rhodes was a bitch when Rex got a hold of him. Where is Bryd currently? Oh yeah he got cut lmao Oh yea Landon Collins rookie that had issues backpedaling. Collins would not last as a FS and you are taking away his strengths. Come correct next time I am sure you'll have a legitimate argument. Enjoy the draft! Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
really? some of the best free safeties all time eugene robinson undrafted jake scott 7th round pick yale larry (and old one) but 3rd round pick darren sharper 2nd round paul krause (old one) 2nd round willy wood (old one) undrafted all of them are in the HOF or should be collins isn't a rookie you are looking at a 2 year old article. like seriously you are just making yourself look pretty bad. he struggled as a rookie. so what many players do. 2016 was his 2nd season and he made the pro bowl and was runner up for DPOTY he had 5 picks and 4 sacks 5 INTS and 125 tackles. you act like the NFL started 5 years ago. earl thomas is not an all time great safety. seriously not even close. ed reed? yup, but thomas nope. he was a top safety a few years has some injury isues and I doubt he'll make the HOF and you can't go into a draft expecting any player to make the HOF. the percent of players that make it is stupidly low, hell even the % of 1st round picks that last in the NFL 5 seasons is low
McFly! Anyone there!? You reading my posts? Of course I posted the 2 year article, 2 years ago he played free safety full time due to the injuries in the secondary. As a Giants fan, I thought you would've known that watching the games. 2nd season, did not start at FS and in the playoffs Leon Hall started at FS. Andrew was a FS as well. Your only pal, "PFF" even disagrees with you: See, now you are looking even dumber. http://giantswire.usatoday.com/2017...ollins-pff-most-improved-second-year-players/ You could've googled this and saved yourself the embarrassment. Do you need me to bold the % while we are at it? Ed Reed and Ronnie Lott are the best FS of all time. Both drafted in the first round. There is a considerable gap between the first 2 and the next guy up. LOL should be in the HOF? Well I guess they aren't the greatest are they? When it is all said and done, I think Earl Thomas will get a lot of respect when his career is over and will probably get in the HOF. This is a passing league now so you I am specifically talking about this era of passing, we can talk about any era but at the end of the day, the best safeties were drafted at the top. Reed and Lott.
um no dude you are acting like a joke (i would expect more from someone with 15k posts) and resorting to childish insults. so he played 37% of his snaps at FS that just proves my point he played as a hybrid player. it's a big assumption to say the most improved player from year 1 to year 2 happened due to a change in 20% of his snaps that's it a 20% change 1 out of every 5 snaps. on average there is about 65 snaps per game. assuming a player gets a few for rests it's safe to say collins averaged about 60 snaps a game that means only 12 of his snaps changed from his rookie season. 12 plays. that's it the other 48 were right in line with his rookie season. hence it's a much safer assumption that he got better due to experience. knowing the system better, another offseason, mentor-ship from vets etc. 12 snaps difference a game didn't change that. the reason he played less at FS was because the giants drafted a free safety in the 3rd round not capable of playing SS. now of course I know you'll have another dumb ass reply but i'm quite enjoying you making yourself look so bad.
