Seriously, if we're going to criticize spread QBs for throwing to wide open receivers, then pick apart tight window throws like that because NFL cornerbacks are apparently superhuman freaks that can jump 10 feet in the air, then what can these guys possibly do without getting criticized? Wide open throw = system, anyone can do that Tight window throw = wait until he goes up against NFL defenders! What a joke
Harrell had no arm strength. He was a fierce competitor and a good field general but an arm weaker than Chad Pennington.
Well, the evaluator I posted, along with a lot of others, disagree. The point being that his tremendous arm strength and throwing ability offset his poor mechanics.
LOL Alleycat9 ,, the three video clips of bad form you posted was against LSU, OU, and TCU. You could be his agent. LSU breeds NFL players. OU and LSU are usually top ten teams loaded with talent. Lately TCU has been no slouch. In just those THREE games Mahomes threw for 1310 yards 11 tds. and 3 ints. Thats not against any pushovers. Mahomes has the arm to make those throws from all angles. I have seen him do it regularly for three years. Would it be nice to have classic form , sure, but in most games he had no time to sit in a pocket and get set. Like NC said earlier , the only area he needs to work on is a drop back.
where have I heard that one before??? oh yeah, every single draft with whatever flavor of the month air raid QB that gets over drafted and eventually flops
A scouting report that isn't so nice on Mahomes... frantic footwork shows that he may not be as accurate as indicated ... the guy does sound a little bias against Mahomes, but it appears this guy doesn't like any of the QBs in this draft. http://presnapreads.com/2017/04/02/patrick-mahomes-and-the-allure-of-upside/
you are right I might. Geno Smith was actually a little more polished with better ball placement and better in the pocket.
So the hype trains's gotten to the point where flawed mechanics are now touted as strong points? Where do I sign up for this line of thinking? Forget back shoulder throws, it's now the "off the back foot throws" that are the wave of the future, esp. in the northeast winds in december. The answer: bringing in a 3rd developmental qb who will in the midst of all the "QB clutter" will never get enough reps and/or coaching? bad idea Forget CB, TE, S, edge LB....compromise the rest of the team's talent level and development by blowing yet another high draft pick on a technically-flawed developmental QB while pissing away a shot at a far better '18 QB class. By the 2018 draft the NYJ will know which one of their current developmental QBs are not the answer which opens up a spot for a franchise prospect (read: fold for darnold). But for now, all aboard the hype train .......smh.....
No one's going that far, Joe, but the kid has a ton of talent. I think he has a great chance to be a top QB in the NFL. Unfortunately, the Jets' situation is such that he probably shouldn't be taken by them. The only way it would make sense is if they think he has a much better chance at developing than Petty, and think he could be a topnotch starter. In that scenario, they'd need to trade or cut Petty (or possibly Hack, but I don't see that happening).
time will tell. if a guy has shit mechanics in college its going to be tough to fix him. he was a decent college qb. i do think its funny that in a matter of hours 3 guys managed to tell me im an idiot because i didnt like what they think is the next great qb... id rather have patrick lavon mahomes
The Jets don't want to have a 3rd guy on hand who has to be taught how to play QB in the NFL. Switch to an Air Raid and let both Mahomes and Petty play what they know. Assuming you're going to draft another Spread Option QB.
I haven't gone to the link yet, so I'm not sure what he says or he defends his opinion, but how can he not be as accurate as indicated? I know that footwork does affect accuracy, but completion percentage is completion percentage, and one only has to watch him and see that the overwhelming majority of the time, his accuracy and ball placement is spot on in spite of his footwork and fundamentals. His completion percentage climbed/improved each year of his college career, going from 56.8% his freshman season in 2014 to 63.5% his sophomore season (2015), to 65.7% his junior season (2016). If he can fix his footwork/fundamentals, his accuracy should only get better, not worse.
The completion % isn't a true indicator of his accuracy because of the system he plays in, so we can't really use those #s. He misses on throws down the field because he constantly is moving his feet and his momentum is going backwards which results in limited velocity / accuracy [meaning it tends to float instead of hitting the receiver in stride]. He lacks touch on his passes, I question his ability to throw a receiver open with anticipation as the system doesn't really help him in that regard. He's got a great arm and imprisoning skills, but has A LOT of re-tooling. You have to take away those bad habits he has. I can't sell the idea of taking him in the first 2 rounds. I like Kizer a lot more to be honest.
I totally disagree. You obviously have not watched much film of him or you wouldn't say that his throws downfield tend to float instead of hitting the receiver in stride. That's just not accurate, just as your trying to compare Harrell to Mahomes wasn't accurate. Harrell had a rag arm and was not even in the same universe as Mahomes in terms of arm strength. As I said before, completion percentage is completion percentage. If anything, it's a tribute to his arm and eye/hand coordination that his percentage is so high in spite of his footwork, and means that once he fixes that footwork, he'll be even more accurate. Yes his offense is predicated to QBs having a high completion percentage, but he still has to make throws and if you've watched much of his film at all, you see him making throws that very few other QBs could even begin to complete, much less complete with such pinpoint accuracy. Sure Mahomes makes some bad throws, but most QBs do. Some are undoubtedly because of his poor footwork, but most of the time, he puts the ball right in the receivers hands in stride and where only they can catch the ball in spite of his footwork. He can thread the ball into tight windows with amazing accuracy and touch. Saying he lacks touch is flat out laughable. You must go to the same eye doctor as BrowningNagle.
All I will say about this is check that scouting report I posted, it's full of examples with video proof of his passes sailing and nearly getting picked off, it's inconsistent and correlates to his footwork / super sloppy mechanics. Completion % is not a true indicator of one's accuracy and can be skewed due to system. I also saw this on tape on draftbreakdown and Joe posted a similar one.
ill say it again, he was a decent college quarterback. he has lived for a long long time off of having above average arm strength. that isnt going to do shit for him in the nfl. i also think kizer has a much much higher upside, i think he will end up being the best qb in the this years draft. IF and as usual its a big if he can learn how to play the game in the pro systems he is most likely going to need to learn.
I agree completely. There is no real problem with evaluating a QB's completion percentage but for some reason in the modern era people have relied on this far too much when evaluating QBs. It's helps tell the story but it should never be the story. Mahomes, and a lot of young QB to be fair, almost never throw anticipatory throws. The system Mahomes plays it relies on him waiting until his read is open and then throwing to him. I don't blame college coaches for doing that, at their level I would too, it works and its safer. But in the NFL you can't do that. You have to throw to spots not players. You have to look off defensive backs and you don't have time in the pocket to wait for people to get open. Mahomes' completion percentage is largely irrelevant because he's not going to be throwing those types passes in the NFL (or if he tries he will have a problem with sacks and turnovers).
He was a very good college QB no doubt about it, arm strength will only get you so far in the NFL no doubt about it. I think Kizer absolutely has a shot to be the best QB in this draft, he needs to learn to set his feet and be consistent with this throwing motion because when he moves around in the pocket which he does very well he gets sloppy and he misses receivers. He has a lot of things you can't teach. He needs to watch plenty of Tom Brady tape.
Very true, rarely do you see QBs display that skill-set to "throw a receiver open" in college. Jameis Winston was very good at that, but still threw interceptions in college. I think Kizer can do it too in due time. He can read the defense post snap, but needs to be more disciplined in his mechanics cause the guy makes some wild throws. Kizer needs to mature as a player and a person. I don't even look at the completion% to be honest unless it's dangerously low
